Money Stolen From Account ?

grumbler

diamonds wrote: »

I would have hoped NW stopped use of the joint account if not closed it with a due amount given a customer explaining the situation and wrote to both parties about the amount due several times before lifting funds as off setting.

An overdrawn account can't be closed.

Certainly Santander (Abbey) locked my joint account at my request ....

Not blocking the joint account ...

There was no request to block it in this case.

...aswell as allowing access to the new account just seems lunacy,

No, if the new account was opened as a joint one.

Where you pay 50% of the amount due on a joint overdraft etc where the other party has means to pay the other 50% a good branch manager will remove a name.

Do you know that both account holders are jointly and solely liable for the total debt? If you do, how can you say this 50/50 nonsense?
Account holders can come to this agreement and pay, but "a good branch manager" can't remove a name if 50% is paid.

Obviously in my situation (Abbey) bank policy was both signatures for a name removal but were able to freeze the account not remove name for my further protection as I would only be liable for 50% of the amount due to the point of notification of requested termination, which had the desired effect anyway.

Don't know about "desired termination", but no way freezing could limit your personal liability by 50%.

agrinnall

If she's not able to already see it in her online banking (perhaps because the e-savings account has been closed) she could submit a SAR to Nationwide to ask for details of all transactions, that way she could see what account the money was transferred to. Although personally I think they should just tell her, it was her account after all.

grumbler

BigGreenKwak wrote: »

Each e-Savings account is linked to some current account- This is true, an e-savings account is linked to a Flex account (or other) joint or sole. But if the e-savings account was setup on the new sole account using the new log in details, then how did it become visible to the joint account when that joint account is not visible when she logs on.

Like you, I can only guess what really happened.
I see all my NW accounts together in my online account. My guess is that after opening a new sole account your daughter had two current accounts in her online account: joint and sole. If so, it was easy to make a mistake and open a new e-savings account linked to the joint one, i.e. a joint e-savings account. In this case the second account holder can see it in his online account too.

Also the joint account was frozen the day after they split up so no money could go in or out as of that day.

This is the first time you say it was frozen.

So to what account did the funds get transferred into, we can only guess that he also setup a new sole account for himself.

Possibly.

"theft" is questionable- This is the part I am struggling with.

Yes, it is - by the nature of a joint account if it really was joint.
In my online banking I don't see how to find out if an account is sole or joint.

colsten

grumbler wrote: »

My guess is that after opening a new sole account your daughter had two current accounts in her online account: joint and sole. If so, it was easy to make a mistake and open a new e-savings account linked to the joint one, i.e. a joint e-savings account. In this case the second account holder can see it in his online account too.

I understand your theory but we were told:

BigGreenKwak wrote: »

when she logs on to her new online she only see's her own account and not the joint account.

She couldn't have set up a joint savings account online by mistake. We were told the e-savings account was set up online:

BigGreenKwak wrote: »

To ensure she kept her savings we opened a new e-savings account via online banking with the Nationwide

I think there's a good likelihood that the culprit is not the ex-husband but someone much closer to home - see my earlier post.

cheesetoast

BigGreenKwak wrote: »

My first bit of advice to her was to open her own account which she did in person in store, again with the Nationwide (FlexAccount)

Bad idea being the same bank - this allows them to use the money in the new account to pay off the overdraft on the old joint one.

BigGreenKwak wrote: »

, more than once in this process she asked if her (X) husband would be able to she her new account and she was repeatedly told NO.

Which is true if she was opening a fresh account in branch.

BigGreenKwak wrote: »

we opened a new e-savings account via online banking with the Nationwide and transferred her small but important savings across.

If you transferred from a joint account to open the savings, the savings account will be a joint account, and thus, the money in it will be still owned jointly by both parties.

BigGreenKwak wrote: »

Should Nationwide accept reasonability for this

Whether they should and will may be two different things. They'll probably lean on the wording presented when opening the account online:



Sorry if this isn't what you were hoping to hear, but hope it helps.

colsten

cheesetoast wrote: »

If you transferred from a joint account to open the savings, the savings account will be a joint account, and thus, the money in it will be still owned jointly by both parties.

I didn't know that but it sounds an unlikely explanation - unless her new current account is also a joint account with her ex.

diamonds

grumbler wrote: »

An overdrawn account can't be closed.
There was no request to block it in this case.
No, if the new account was opened as a joint one.
Do you know that both account holders are jointly and solely liable for the total debt? If you do, how can you say this 50/50 nonsense?
Account holders can come to this agreement and pay, but "a good branch manager" can't remove a name if 50% is paid.Don't know about "desired termination", but no way freezing could limit your personal liability by 50%.

A overdrawn account can be closed, as default, a manual default can be added by branch management. Same as selling the debt on.

The OP apparently made the situation clear.

Again a great relationship with all branch staff, online banking with joint liabilities ? Madness!


Branch staff can and will protect themselves from debt and customers in circumstances, mine went out the way to help.
They were absolutely amazing, because they had a working relationship face to face with me, online banking is not the be all and end all.


When I moved city away from my local long term branch and ended up severely ill and in a financial crisis the new branch were horrific and unhelpful to stop me defaulting on very minimal amounts, kept raising my fees and interest.

Eventually a good member of staff admitted charges and interest should have been frozen and I had paid back the overdraft several times over and cleared the overdraft for free but did not withdraw the overdraft as financially I was a little better off and told me to make a complaint online out of branch because my (rich to poor) relationship was long standing with them was compromised by inappropriate staff behaviour when I set up a voluntary agreement to pay the overdraft off & they breached twice from my agreement with charge rises - something most the staff were told by me and dismissed.


To put into perspective how ill I was, I was bedridden most the time and struggled to walk, struggled to get to the bathroom or cook, clean, bathe, sleeping 18 hours a day in bouts as I could not stay awake. Had to be driven everywhere. I told my dad to prepare to bury his only child before him and planned everything, including leaving him info on DWP assistance for funeral costs.


This new branch knew all this and refused to help.



Needless to say even when I get 20K it wont be saved in Santander 123 out of principle. I wont ever touch them again.

BigGreenKwak

Quick update.
My daughter spoke to her X last night via Facebook and asked him about the money.
He admitted transferring the money and closing the e-savings account.

colsten- I'm not quite sure who you thought transferred the money when you say "I think there's a good likelihood that the culprit is not the ex-husband but someone much closer to home - see my earlier post". Let me give a quick explanation of her current situation. Since splitting up she has had to live in protected accommodation for the children's and her safety. As such her address has to remain guarded, and to limit any contact with any X partners there is no internet. So for her to set up and use online banking she has to bring her card and passcode to me, she can then use my PC, internet and card reader. She can not access her online banking unless she is with me, as I hold the card reader. If this sounds like I am controlling her finances, I am. She is not savvy with the online banking and she needs to save every penny she can to rebuild her live and a home.

cheesetoast- Her new sole account that was setup in the branch by a member of staff was supposed to be a new account with no ties into their existing joint account. So when setting up an e-savings account online it should of been linked to her new sole account only, and not to the joint account.

As far as I can see the problem sits in 1 of 2 places.
1/ When the sole account was opened in the branch it was not setup as a fresh/new account but simply added alongside her existing joint account. In this case the blame should be with NW for not safe guarding the account ?
2/ When the e-savings account was opened on the sole account using the online banking, it should not of become visible to the joint account. Again NW error ?

We now know who took the money and how, the only question remaining is why that money was visible to him in the first place.

Thanks All.

grumbler

BigGreenKwak wrote: »

...She can not access her online banking unless she is with me, as I hold the card reader. If this sounds like I am controlling her finances, I am.

NW's online banking can be accessed without the reader, with limited functionality though.
However, this is irrelevant if the OH admitted taking the money, although he could do this only if the account was opened as a joint one as I guessed. (ETA: o the OH knew her login information and transferred the money to some existing payee).

As far as I can see the problem sits in 1 of 2 places.
1/ When the sole account was opened in the branch it was not setup as a fresh/new account but simply added alongside her existing joint account.

It makes no sense to have separate online banking for each account. Nobody needs/wants this, so, most likely this is just impossible. All people want to see their accounts in one place.

In this case the blame should be with NW for not safe guarding the account ?

There was no need to 'safeguard' the new current account. And we still can guess only what really happened with the new savings account that was opened online.

2/ When the e-savings account was opened on the sole account using the online banking, it should not of become visible to the joint account.

Correct.

Again NW error ?

Yes, error if it was the case, but not 'again'.

We now know who took the money and how, the only question remaining is why that money was visible to him in the first place.

I stick to my theory.

Archi_Bald

Given the new information, it sounds as if OP and daughter need to go back to Nationwide and ask them for an explanation how the savings account was accessible to the ex. You then also need to ask Nationwide for a refund. If Nationwide do not cooperate, you will need to involve the FOS.

I think it would also be prudent if your daughter got a current account elsewhere immediately, where there is no risk of her data to be muddled up with her ex. All her money should be transferred to this new account without delay.

NB. I hope you have a screenshot of the Facebook conversation as evidence of the admission by the ex.