The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

TrickyTree83

sss555s wrote: »

I'd say there is a bigger economic case to leave the union.

You're not having a good day Tricky, go and have a lay down old chap.

Er, a throwaway comment does not an argument make.

If you genuinely believe there to be a "bigger" economic case for leaving the union, lets hear it, enlighten all of us who have bothered to read about oil funds, border effects, trade statistics, etc... or should we just "listen and believe"?

Shakethedisease

kelpie35 wrote: »

Increasing the education attainment

Reducing NHS waiting times

Reducing unemployment

Re child poverty

Do you want me to go on.................?

Usual newspaper crap served up as facts. Employment and Welfare are reserved ( welfare being the prime criteria in poverty ). And the Scottish NHS is beating all the other UK NHS figures out the park.

The story so far: Out of all the four nations, hospitals in Scotland seem to have fared the best.Weekly data shows four-hour performance in major units hovering around the 90% mark during January.
Much of the credit has been given to the way councils and the health service are working together.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38853700


Look in before you look out. Or do you want me to go on ?

TrickyTree83

The ideological bull is reaching fever pitch levels on this thread now.

You don't need to be correct, you just need to have the correct point of view.

kelpie35

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

When I hear about the perception as above, I wonder why, as being part of such a Great Britain, which such a positive economic outlook, the belief is that Scotland is so poor.

Is it not possible that in itself is a huge indicator as to why we should go alone, be responsible and stand on our own two feet.

No-one surely want to live in the shadow of big brothers coat tails and living off their hand me downs.

Scotland has such a wide and varied economy, with resources that other small nation countries would love to have and the opportunity to thrive independently in the modern world.

Sorry but you are living in cloud cuckoo land along with all your other SNP cronies

I feel very secure knowing that I am part of the UK and they look after me extremely well :T

A_Medium_Size_Jock

mayonnaise wrote: »

Scotland has just 8.3% of the UK population.
But they do have:

32% of the land area
61% of the sea area
90% of the fresh water
65% of the natural gas production
96.5% of the crude oil production
47% of the open cast coal production
81% of the untapped coal reserves
62% of the timber production
46% of the total forest area
92% of the hydro electric production
40% of the wind wave and solar energy production
60% of the fish landings
30% of the beef herd
20% of the sheep herd
9% of the dairy herd
10% of the pig herd
15% if the cereal holdings
20% of the potato holdings, and
100% of the Scotch Whisky industry.
They also have a:
£17 billion construction industry
£13 billion food and drink industry
£10 billion business services industry
£9.3 billion chemical services industry
£9.3 billion tourism industry
£7 billion financial services industry
£5 billion aero-service industry
£4.5 billion whisky exports industry
£3.1 billion life sciences industry, and
£350 million pounds worth of textile exports.
Scotland also has 25% of Europe's wave and wind energy potential.
And finally £1.5 trillion worth of oil and gas reserves.
All that from just 8.3% of the population!

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=66480498&postcount=10314

Those figures were good almost three years ago.
And now?

Scotland almost £15 billion in debt and its deficit is almost twice as large as the UK as a whole, say new figures

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/scotland-almost-15-billion-in-debt-and-its-deficit-is-almost-twice-as-large-as-the-uk-as-a-whole-say-a6921381.html

Or do you want to talk about (for example) the oil and gas reserves; how is their value holding up?

mollycat

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Is this the same as the presumption that post Independence, there will only be and ever will be an SNP government.

Once Independence is achieved ALL parties in Scotland will be focused on delivering the bast options for Scotland and I'm sure the intelligent electorate will vote and they believe accordingly.

No.

I know in any iScotland there would not likely be an SNP administration. (DOH).

It's not a SNP led independence people are opposed to, but Independence full stop.

Jumping back into threads after a long absence is fine; don't go making assumptions about what people think that are clearly contradicted throughout the thread though.

IveSeenTheLight

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Okay.
So provide a budget to enable Scotland's independence.
Preferably whereby our current standard of living can be maintained, even as-near-as.
Without cuts to most areas, that means.
And then explain why the SNP cannot provide one.

Listen, I'm not going there as I've long time advocated that there will be a short term cost to independence.

I'm all for living within our means and truly believe we should not be running a deficit.

After that initial period however, I am still be be convinced why full autonomy is not the best way for representing the Scottish electorate.

Its like your advocating we are the "Benefit Street" of the UK and you don't want to move away from being on benefits

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Er, a throwaway comment does not an argument make.

If you genuinely believe there to be a "bigger" economic case for leaving the union, lets hear it, enlighten all of us who have bothered to read about oil funds, border effects, trade statistics, etc... or should we just "listen and believe"?

*You've all done well over the last few decades convincing Scots that they cannot possibly survive by constantly pointing out how poor Scotland is. But thankfully more and more people are now waking up and discounting arguments which ONLY ever concentrate on negative outcomes and ONLY for Scotland. Almost as if rUK will sail merrily on into hard Brexitland unscathed with little consequence. They do this by simply checking out the facts for themselves ( see the NHS figures above for a prime example of spin sucked in parroted back by the gullible ).. rather than relying on vested interests.

Independence has economic consequences of course, just like Brexit does for both Scotland and the rUK. But lets get away from pretending that it's all one way. However, the political case for the Union is now dead ( and certainly will be buried on 9th June ). The economic case for remaining in a UK outwith the EU and Single Market has not been made yet.

I suggest if you do not want Scotland to leave the UK, then you get on and start making it.. instead of concentrating on tired old tropes from the past. You do not have to convince Scots voters of the economic arguments of the past, those already did the job in Sept 14. You now need to start convincing them of sound and credible future ones from 2019 onwards.

Get on with it. Time is short.

*Westminster, other political parties, people on forums and commenting in general. Not you personally.

IveSeenTheLight

kelpie35 wrote: »

Sorry but you are living in cloud cuckoo land along with all your other SNP cronies

I feel very secure knowing that I am part of the UK and they look after me extremely well :T

To the point I just made above.
Your coming across as a Benefits Street recipient with no outlook as to how you can get off those benefits and deliver a better life for yourself

IveSeenTheLight

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Scotland almost £15 billion in debt and its deficit is almost twice as large as the UK as a whole, say new figures?

A fantastic example of a headline manipulating from statistics.

Scotland's deficit is of course not twice as large as the whole of the UK