The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

IveSeenTheLight

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Sure you are.

You've backtracked to the point where you're using the guidelines which have been redrawn as a result of the review in 2013 as a backstop to your argument. All that proves is that I'm right in that Scotland is over represented and the rules have changed to reflect that as well as reduce the overall number of MP's in Westminster. But still after the redrawing of constituency borders Scottish votes will still be over represented at Westminster.

Total Electorate = 46,499,537
Scottish Electorate = 3,988,492

Scottish Percentage = 8.57%

http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i-am-a/journalist/electoral-commission-media-centre/news-releases-referendums/provisional-electorate-figures-published-ahead-of-the-eu-referendum

Total MP's = 650
Scottish MP's = 59

Scottish representation % = 9.07%

After the redrawing of constituency borders:

Total MP's = 600
Scottish MP's = 53

Scottish representation % = 8.83%

Exactly as I've been saying all along.

The End.

Edit: I can see you'll want to criticise the use of the EU referendum electorate figures, before you do have a think about the date and who exactly was eligible and why, and note that the comparable numbers from the 2015 GE are lower.

I've not backtracked at all.
I've remained consistent in my posts and use of the facts to represent my viewpoint.

Your still blaming Scots for over representation above the English.

Your drawing the wrong comparison and its interesting that you have chosen not to consider the Welsh or Norther Irish in these comparisons.

It's also interesting that you have not commented once on my point of proportional representation, which would negate all of the points we are debating.

Why do you insist on drawing these (battle) lines on a forum instead of taking the correct root cause of the problem and lobbying for a change?

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Conrad wrote: »

What do Scots think of Indyref 2 - this is great, watch it to the end;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoNtAU4xKg8

You're telling me and a few others on here nothing that we don't already know.
It's only the few hard-line protagonists insisting upon independence (or a referendum for this again) any time soon.
Most Scots are sensible enough to know when they are better off.

IveSeenTheLight

Conrad wrote: »

What do Scots think of Indyref 2 - this is great, watch it to the end;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoNtAU4xKg8

Sorry, don;t have time to watch it now, I'll check it out later.
Just a small point, your link is to "What do people in Edinburgh think of Indyref2"

Also, I note the first comment states

Sign of the times, can hardly find a Scottish person in Scotland.

Conrad

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Most Scots are sensible enough to know when they are better off.

Too right, and just wait for another 2 years of comparative low growth thanks to SNP socialism, the Scots will lose patience as they see the UK as a whole putting on decent growth.


Incidentally Venezuela was in the BBC News last night - that socialist nirvana has over 400% inflation and society reduced to total collapse, but as ever British lefties are telling me this is another case of 'the wrong type of socialism', lol.

IveSeenTheLight

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

You're telling me and a few others on here nothing that we don't already know.
It's only the few hard-line protagonists insisting upon independence (or a referendum for this again) any time soon.
Most Scots are sensible enough to know when they are better off.

I am pretty well off, but I do fear for the future of my children and grand-children that does consider whether self determination will be a better long term solution for Scotland and the people who reside there.

The biggest problem with Indy Ref 1, was were advised the only way to remain within Europe is to remain within the UK.
This puts a major component in the decision at fault and probably a just cause to consider the question again.

You say you know when you are better off, but surely there is doubt now with Brexit as it will definitely change, whilst Indy ref 1 (and Ref 2 I presume) would be advocating to stay within the EU

TrickyTree83

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

I've not backtracked at all.
I've remained consistent in my posts and use of the facts to represent my viewpoint.

Your still blaming Scots for over representation above the English.

Your drawing the wrong comparison and its interesting that you have chosen not to consider the Welsh or Norther Irish in these comparisons.

It's also interesting that you have not commented once on my point of proportional representation, which would negate all of the points we are debating.

Why do you insist on drawing these (battle) lines on a forum instead of taking the correct root cause of the problem and lobbying for a change?

I'm not blaming Scots, I'm not blaming anyone, I'm merely stating a statistical fact.

I'm not talking about Welsh representation or Northern Irish representation. I'm only talking about Scottish representation on the Scottish thread because it's about Scotland.

If the numbers are wrong, tell me and everyone else how.

IveSeenTheLight

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

I'm not blaming Scots, I'm not blaming anyone, I'm merely stating a statistical fact.

Your not stating a statistical fact, your manipulating the stat incorrectly.
The percentage that represent English MP's are under represented. I've already stated that.

I did not make the guidelines, but the Scottish MP's are representing their constituents within those guidelines.

You really need to ask the English MP's why they are not representing the English electorate equally.

TrickyTree83

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Your not stating a statistical fact, your manipulating the stat incorrectly.
The percentage that represent English MP's are under represented. I've already stated that.

I did not make the guidelines, but the Scottish MP's are representing their constituents within those guidelines.

You really need to ask the English MP's why they are not representing the English electorate equally.

No, I don't because this isn't about England or English MP's.

Scottish votes are over represented in Westminster. Fact.

You're picking a fight over something I've demonstrated you to be wrong about. The guidelines are changing and will reduce the over representation by less than a percentage point, it's what needs to happen but it should have gone further. According to the eligible electorate figures Scotland should have an absolute maximum of 52 MP's, and that's rounding up from 51.4.

It's nothing to do with England, Wales or Northern Ireland.

The rules on constituency boundaries need to be updated to more accurately reflect the population distribution across the UK.

Proportional representation - no I wouldn't vote for that. I understand the arguments for it but I prefer stable government than a Belgian or Dutch situation of squabbling factions. But I don't see what bearing proportional representation has on the fact that Scottish voters are over represented at Westminster? You're just adding more facets to the argument/debate to draw attention away from the numbers.

IveSeenTheLight

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

No, I don't because this isn't about England or English MP's.

Scottish votes are over represented in Westminster. Fact.

You're picking a fight over something I've demonstrated you to be wrong about. The guidelines are changing and will reduce the over representation by less than a percentage point, it's what needs to happen but it should have gone further. According to the eligible electorate figures Scotland should have an absolute maximum of 52 MP's, and that's rounding up from 51.4.

It's nothing to do with England, Wales or Northern Ireland.

The rules on constituency boundaries need to be updated to more accurately reflect the population distribution across the UK.

Proportional representation - no I wouldn't vote for that. I understand the arguments for it but I prefer stable government than a Belgian or Dutch situation of squabbling factions. But I don't see what bearing proportional representation has on the fact that Scottish voters are over represented at Westminster? You're just adding more facets to the argument/debate to draw attention away from the numbers.

Absolutely I am not.

With regards to your numbers (I've shown them before), the guidelines are that there should be circa 92,000 population per MP.

Scotland has a population of circa 5.4 million, meaning we should be represented by 58.7 MP's.
We can chop an MP into 2/3's, hence we are represented correctly and in accordance with the guidelines.

Put it another way, the percentage is high (in your opinion), because the English percentage is too low (under represented)

I therefore and once again refute your position that we are over represented in accordance with the guidelines and politely point you in the direction of your own MP's to question why they are under-representing your constituencies.

TrickyTree83

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Absolutely I am not.

With regards to your numbers (I've shown them before), the guidelines are that there should be circa 92,000 population per MP.

Scotland has a population of circa 5.4 million, meaning we should be represented by 58.7 MP's.
We can chop an MP into 2/3's, hence we are represented correctly and in accordance with the guidelines.

Put it another way, the percentage is high (in your opinion), because the English percentage is too low (under represented)

I therefore and once again refute your position that we are over represented in accordance with the guidelines and politely point you in the direction of your own MP's to question why they are under-representing your constituencies.

Jog on.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/bulletins/annualmidyearpopulationestimates/latest

2015 data.

Scotland's population share would be 8.28%.

8.28% of Westminster MP's currently (650) would be 53.82.

Under the reduction in MP's it should be 49.68 MP's.

Do you want a shovel?

Whether it's eligible electorate or population, Scottish people are over represented in Westminster. Have been in the past, are now, and will be in the future according to the guidelines that came out of the 2013 review.

Are you sure you don't want that shovel?