The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I hope you're not out altogether ? It's great seeing you back and posting again. You've been missed.

Makes you seem rational and reasoned, certainly appreciate your interactions more now.

mollycat

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

That was the question.

With regards to assumptions, it was the better together campaign that said the only way to remain in Europe was to vote to stay as part of the UK.

That assumption and statement was clearly false

I'll have a look at Conrads video later tonight

Maybe it's just me, but instead of believing everything that is said by politicians, I try and think things through for myself.

The point you are making is a poor excuse to advance any 2nd referendum, and the associated division, disruption and economic disaster this would cause.

Brexit is happening; live with it as a democratic decision of the whole of the UK.

I am, and I voted Remain.

IveSeenTheLight

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I hope you're not out altogether ? It's great seeing you back and posting again. You've been missed.

Nah, just out of trying to debate with a person so entrenched they cannot see reasonable points

IveSeenTheLight

mollycat wrote: »

Maybe it's just me, but instead of believing everything that is said by politicians, I try and think things through for myself.

The point you are making is a poor excuse to advance any 2nd referendum, and the associated division, disruption and economic disaster this would cause.

Brexit is happening; live with it as a democratic decision of the whole of the UK.

I am, and I voted Remain.

I most definitely think for myself and don't use politicians as an excuse, but its a sad reflection that often politics is decided upon fear of change

mollycat

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

The feminist claptrap?

Sexist claptrap, surely?

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

You're talking !!!!.

lol

Good thing you're bowing out because there is no skew because of under representation of English MP's. First of all it would be English voters, secondly that's if they were increasing the number of MP's not reducing them and thirdly if the guidelines were set in stone which they're not, and if you're looking at it by population or eligible vote, you're wrong so so so wrong.

Independence - no Scottish MP's at Westminster at all. The End.

In other news see Hague made a bit of a tube of himself yesterday on Scottish radio admitting that GERS tells us nothing about an independent Scotland's economy. That sentence is going to haunt him foooooreeeeeeeeeeeeeever.

And Ruth Davidson is totally crashing and burning over the Rape clause thing. After hiding for days, she released a weasel worded statement saying she supported it.. then released another one today demanding the SNP mitigate it with new welfare powers (what the..?? ). She's not doing well under pressure to comment on actual policy it seems. Needs to find a tank to sit on or get herself booked on a fun and wacky tv show.

TrickyTree83

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Nah, just out of trying to debate with a person so entrenched they cannot see reasonable points

Nothing that you said was reasonable.

I explained it in clear terms but you chose to ignore it. I'm well aware of the point you were making but it doesn't wash when you're talking about the proportions of representation according to population or eligible vote share - therefore, over represented.

TrickyTree83

mollycat wrote: »

Sexist claptrap, surely?

3rd wave feminists are the same, everything is patriarchy.

mollycat

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

I most definitely think for myself and don't use politicians as an excuse, but its a sad reflection that often politics is decided upon fear of change

Are you sure you don't mean an electorate that is able to consider the effect of change and decide accordingly?

Brexit= willing to accept possible consequences of change.

Scottish Independence= unwilling to accept possible consequence of change.

Accepting democracy as our system means we have to accept the electorate are capable of understanding the consequences of their vote.

Anything else is just pseudo- intellectual elitism.

Shakethedisease

mollycat wrote: »

Maybe it's just me, but instead of believing everything that is said by politicians, I try and think things through for myself.

The point you are making is a poor excuse to advance any 2nd referendum, and the associated division, disruption and economic disaster this would cause.

Brexit is happening; live with it as a democratic decision of the whole of the UK.

I am, and I voted Remain.

Oh Molly, sooner or later you're going to have to accept the will of the people. Even unionist commentators are now having to think twice. But almost all of the Scottish based are 100% convinced that the Scottish Govt calling for a second referendum is a request that should be respected.

The SNP won last year’s Holyrood election on a manifesto promise to consider a referendum if the UK voted for Brexit against Scotland’s wishes, a scenario that duly materialised. This position has since been backed by the Greens, making it the majority view of the Scottish parliament.

Holyrood therefore has a cast-iron mandate to hold a referendum before the end of the current parliamentary term. Objections that this was settled in 2014, in a vote described by the SNP as “once in a generation”, are trumped by the subsequent mandate the SNP sought and won. Voters can punish the SNP for bad faith at the next Holyrood election, if they so wish.

This is how democracy works, whether or not you like the result.

To me, political sovereignty rests not with the Crown nor with Westminster but with the Scottish people, and whatever level of self-government they decide is best. Ultimately, the Scottish people have primacy. This matters to me, and many like me. It is the touchstone of my political beliefs.

It does not make me a Nat — I voted “no” in 2014 — but the battle lines being drawn by Mrs May and today’s breed of unionist ultras puts my continued adherence to the UK under strain.

Does Scotland have the right to decide if it leaves the UK? The answer has to be a resounding “yes”. In which case the prime minister needs publicly to accept this is the case. Argue about the timing, sure. But accept the principle.

http://archive.is/zzwql#selection-727.0-727.232