The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

TrickyTree83

.string. wrote: »

I don't think this has come up here, but the other day during her report to the HoC on the EU Council meeting T.May made the committment that no power already devolved to the devovlved administrations would be taken back by Westminster and further that other powers would likely be devolved following their repatriation from the EU.

The SNP, however, in their plan to instantly join the EU will give much of that away agaon, like fisheries for example. Of course they will be able to set Corporation Tax (provided it is the same as the rest of the EU).. They will have their own Foreign Policy (provided it is the same as the EU), Choose any currency they like, as long as it's the EURO, balance Scottish income tax with the common EU direct tax and well .... i think Hamish had a list somewhere. Oh yes - blow raspberries at the English. What a prospectus.

Vote SNP, avoid the challenge of Brexit, stay with the EU Comfort Blanket. Up

Discuss!

(with apologies to Beecher2)

Well I would say that's part of the argument against the current independence prospectus from the SNP.

What you've pointed out is indeed correct. Scotland would in actual fact be better off not joining the EU and just remaining in the EEA outside of the customs union (which was and still is my preferred option for Brexit). Able to trade as she wishes and inside the SM only needing businesses that trade with the EU to comply with EU regulation. Not full blown EU membership. The rationale of not having a say is that you're one voice in 28 anyway so why bother, you can do something the other 28 can't and that's strike your own deals elsewhere.

The current "mandate" the SNP are holding on to means EU membership has to be the end goal, and with that they will be giving up powers that will be returned to them under Brexit as you say, the irony is not lost on me for certain.

However I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion if I hadn't already that large sections of the independence support will not be swayed by logical, rational argument. They are the intellectual equivalent of the movie Braveheart and simply scream slogans and grievance at you no matter how much sense you'll make, particularly on social media like twitter. So there will forever remain division in Scotland evermore. Never again shall they be a united country on the issue of their sovereignty even if independence is achieved.

TL DR: I agree.

elantan

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

However I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion if I hadn't already that large sections of the independence support will not be swayed by logical, rational argument. They are the intellectual equivalent of the movie Braveheart and simply scream slogans and grievance at you no matter how much sense you'll make, particularly on social media like twitter. So there will forever remain division in Scotland evermore. Never again shall they be a united country on the issue of their sovereignty even if independence is achieved.

TL DR: I agree.

Do u believe this is all one sided ? Do u recognise there are unionists that are the same ?

TrickyTree83

elantan wrote: »

Do u believe this is all one sided ? Do u recognise there are unionists that are the same ?

If I could find a Unionist that disagreed with the economic analysis in particular (since that's where most of my knowledge on this topic is) and still thought the Union was the way to go then I would have to agree, yes, but I've not come across one.

Edit: As you might say, the same old tired arguments, they are still the best arguments. The economic case must work for iScotland, that's the whole reason for having the Growth Commission as I understand it and yet the head of that commission has recently come out and said GERS is the bedrock of their understanding and that initial results are looking at 10 years+ of austerity the like only Greece has seen.

So I don't know what to say to you other than, the Unionists appear to be correct. And I've not found the Unionist idiot that thinks the economic argument isn't correct.

elantan

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

If I could find a Unionist that disagreed with the economic analysis in particular (since that's where most of my knowledge on this topic is) and still thought the Union was the way to go then I would have to agree, yes, but I've not come across one.

Edit: As you might say, the same old tired arguments, they are still the best arguments. The economic case must work for iScotland, that's the whole reason for having the Growth Commission as I understand it and yet the head of that commission has recently come out and said GERS is the bedrock of their understanding and that initial results are looking at 10 years+ of austerity the like only Greece has seen.

So I don't know what to say to you other than, the Unionists appear to be correct. And I've not found the Unionist idiot that thinks the economic argument isn't correct.

There are plenty out there ... very very fanatical ... to the stage of threatening Yes people

Thrugelmir

Arklight wrote: »

Golly. I hope level heads prevail. Mrs May does seem to be acting in a most rambunctious way.

Totally the reverse. There's absolutely no indication that the majority of people north of the border even want a referendum. May will sit on her hands. There's no rush. Certainly not while Nicola Sturgeon continues to dig herself into an even bigger hole. No doubt the next blast of hot air will follow shortly.

.string.

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

If I could find a Unionist that disagreed with the economic analysis in particular (since that's where most of my knowledge on this topic is) and still thought the Union was the way to go then I would have to agree, yes, but I've not come across one.

Edit: As you might say, the same old tired arguments, they are still the best arguments. The economic case must work for iScotland, that's the whole reason for having the Growth Commission as I understand it and yet the head of that commission has recently come out and said GERS is the bedrock of their understanding and that initial results are looking at 10 years+ of austerity the like only Greece has seen.

So I don't know what to say to you other than, the Unionists appear to be correct. And I've not found the Unionist idiot that thinks the economic argument isn't correct.

There seems to be some sort of cover up going on. Not having followed this, I am puzzled about what is going on.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/snp-economic-adviser-andrew-wilson-scotland-independence-10-years-economy-recovery-nicola-sturgeon-a7630621.html

Question to our Scottish friends - Is the Growth Report some sort of secret report only to be known to the Scottish Government?

.string.

elantan wrote: »

There are plenty out there ... very very fanatical ... to the stage of threatening Yes people

Whoever did whatever to whom, the point of concern is the cumulative effect onn a society's way of life. Do you, elantan, have any concern that damage will be done to the coherence of Scottish society by another referendum now?

TrickyTree83

.string. wrote: »

There seems to be some sort of cover up going on. Not having followed this, I am puzzled about what is going on.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/snp-economic-adviser-andrew-wilson-scotland-independence-10-years-economy-recovery-nicola-sturgeon-a7630621.html

Question to our Scottish friends - Is the Growth Report some sort of secret report o my known to the Scottish Government?

Wow you're right because I saw the 10 year claim from multiple sources as well as a completely separate set of sources for his claim of GERS being the bedrock of their analysis.

Oh dear, doesn't look good for the SNP now. Expect some more developments on this in the near future.

Thrugelmir

.string. wrote: »

Whoever did whatever to whom, the point of concern is the cumulative effect onn a society's way of life. Do you, elantan, have any concern that damage will be done to the coherence of Scottish society by another referendum now?

A generation that hasn't witnessed the troubles of NI. Not that they have ever gone away. Peace walls still exist. Gates locked at night. Genie might be bottled. But perhaps not for much longer.

elantan

.string. wrote: »

Whoever did whatever to whom, the point of concern is the cumulative effect onn a society's way of life. Do you, elantan, have any concern that damage will be done to the coherence of Scottish society by another referendum now?

Well I do believe the behaviour of people in George Square on 19th September 2014 is a worry ... and I do worry that when we get indy these people come back to the foreground of Scotland's society as they won't be able to accept defeat

But I think we will be OK ... we managed well the last time no one was murdered unlike in Brexit ... I would truly like to think we're a bit more mature than that ... although when I saw the video of the man with the English accent share his bile about the people of Scotland I was rather surprised ... and when I read all the people that want Sturgeon hung etc I do worry that this time the Brit Nats will be so scared of losing they become violent ...

I'm also hoping it's Yes party central again a lot this time as I intend on doing the partying this time around and not the campaigning ... I'm hoping the parties will be even better

Let me ask you though ... do you think we shouldn't seek to have self governance because of your fears ?