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The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

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  • Conrad
    Conrad Posts: 33,137
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    Anyone interested in matters Scottish should watch last nights BBC parliament channel from the Scots Parliament where a Tory carefully listed all the ills of the Scottish economic performance
  • antrobus
    antrobus Posts: 17,386 Forumite
    We're talking about Scotland becoming independent. ...

    No you weren't. You wrote;
    ..Whether that's via the EU/EEA/EFTA remains to be seen. Imo the most likely way at the present time ( given the current unknowns ) to win an indy ref campaign is via EEA or EFTA being put forward as a purely transitional option until independence and Brexit is sorted out...

    It's one thing to be stupid and wrong. (There is no transitional option until independence and Brexit is sorted out.) It's another thing to lie about it five minutes later. Crumbs, what's happened to your usual excuse about it being satire? :)
    ...Thus 'a state'. Which makes your whole post above irrelevant. You keep confusing and conflating an independent Scotland, with a Scotland still within the UK. In fact lots of posters here are doing so.

    Nope. It's a very relevant pricking of another of your delusional bubbles.
    ...EFTA/EEA is an option open to Scotland should a vote for independence occur. Imo ( <-- that means in my OWN opinion ) Sturgeon should sell it for all it's worth as a transitional phase after independence is voted for.

    No it isn't. It's not an option until Scotland is independent. And even if Scotland were to vote yes in a referendum actual independence would still be some years worth of fractious negotiating away.

    Until that time Article 56 applies, and neither the EU or EFTA will be interested in negotiating, because as the Supreme Court ruled "Relations with the EU and other foreign affairs matters are reserved to UK Government and parliament, not to the devolved institutions." Thus the devolved Holyrood instituion has no legal power to enter into any treaty with them.
    ...Less time spent skimming posts without taking them in and more time spent actually reading what they say methinks.

    As you can see, I have have actually read your post with a far greater attention to detail than you have. You don't even appear to be able to understand or remember what you yourself are posting, let alone anything else's.:)
  • antrobus
    antrobus Posts: 17,386 Forumite
    kabayiri wrote: »
    The why is difficult...I can't speak for the EU.

    Favourable terms?....Well, a newly formed iScotland would be carrying more debt than would fall under the rules. But, there are ways around this....

    Indeed there are. The usual 'ways around' it are, tax increases, expenditure cuts, or a combination of both.
    kabayiri wrote: »
    ...An iScotland would not have all the state machinery in place, and might have to rely on leasing services from a Brexited UK too....

    It would be a good bet that an iScotland might well be compelled to negotiate the leasing of certain services from the UK, at least for some transitional period. It would also be a good bet that the cost of leasing would be greater than what they are currently (notionally) paying.

    But there are certain things that you really need to DIY. Like having a central bank, some kind of currency, a functioning banking system, that sort of thing. Those don't appear overnight, and you have to spend money on them.
    kabayiri wrote: »
    ....The commitment to move to the Euro might need some flex on timeframe too.

    The Euro has its own set of problems. I'm not convinced that Germany would be that keen on signing up Scotland until they were convinced it wasn't going to be another Greece.:)
  • elantan
    elantan Posts: 21,018
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    I see Jill Stephenson is demanding a 60% result in the next indy ref ... she must be getting worried ... Can't stand the bitter woman so this makes me happy
  • CLAPTON
    CLAPTON Posts: 41,865
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    elantan wrote: »
    I see Jill Stephenson is demanding a 60% result in the next indy ref ... she must be getting worried ... Can't stand the bitter woman so this makes me happy

    all the more reason for dithereing Nicola to call a ref immediately
  • AnotherJoe wrote: »
    the independence argument on its own is obviously not credible since they would swap being one voice in 4 to one voice in 28, so that cant be it.

    And remind me again, how much good has being 'one voice in four' done us regarding our desire to stay in the EU?

    Or even to have a compromise agreement where Scotland stays in the single market while the rest of the UK leaves?

    Or for that matter even having control over our own immigration policy to keep free movement after the UK leaves?

    Westminster has shown precisely zero willingness to compromise with Scotland on this at all.

    If our voice is to be completely ignored as one in four, particularly on such a fundamental issue as this, there's no advantage to being one in four.
    “The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.

    Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”

    -- President John F. Kennedy”
  • CLAPTON
    CLAPTON Posts: 41,865
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    And remind me again, how much good has being 'one voice in four' done us regarding our desire to stay in the EU?

    Or even to have a compromise agreement where Scotland stays in the single market while the rest of the UK leaves?

    Or for that matter even having control over our own immigration policy to keep free movement after the UK leaves?

    Westminster has shown precisely zero willingness to compromise with Scotland on this at all.

    If our voice is to be completely ignored as one in four, particularly on such a fundamental issue as this, there's no advantage to being one in four.

    good thinking : because scotland doesn't ALWAYS get it way in the UK then the answer is to join the EU where scotland will NEVER gets its way.

    Nicol is asking for an impossible scheme for the sole purpose of gaining support for Iscotland.
    And lets hopes she succeeds in persuading the scots to leave the UK
  • TrickyTree83
    TrickyTree83 Posts: 3,930 Forumite
    And remind me again, how much good has being 'one voice in four' done us regarding our desire to stay in the EU?

    Or even to have a compromise agreement where Scotland stays in the single market while the rest of the UK leaves?

    Or for that matter even having control over our own immigration policy to keep free movement after the UK leaves?

    Westminster has shown precisely zero willingness to compromise with Scotland on this at all.

    If our voice is to be completely ignored as one in four, particularly on such a fundamental issue as this, there's no advantage to being one in four.

    Holyrood is not the body that Westminster should be compromising with, Holyrood's job is to run devolved matters. End of.

    What you ought to do is turn your blame to the SNP voting Scots for not supporting a UK party in the GE meaning we had a highly likely Conservative government who had promised an EU referendum. The woes that SNP supporters now speak about are in part their responsibility, and they ought to recognise that instead of blaming those of us who voted for the Conservatives and then for Leave. Disunity has caused your voice in Westminster to mean absolutely nothing compared to a Labour opposition or government.

    Slow round of applause is required for the bright sparks north of the border moaning about a situation they helped to create :rotfl:
  • What you ought to do is turn your blame to the SNP voting Scots for not supporting a UK party in the GE meaning we had a highly likely Conservative government who had promised an EU referendum.

    If every Scot had voted Labour at the last GE we'd still have a Conservative majority government.
    Slow round of applause is required for the bright sparks north of the border moaning about a situation they helped to create :rotfl:

    And an even slower one for the bright sparks south of the border who can't count...;)
    “The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.

    Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”

    -- President John F. Kennedy”
  • CLAPTON
    CLAPTON Posts: 41,865
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    If every Scot had voted Labour at the last GE we'd still have a Conservative majority government

    yes, one person one vote is a bad idea so you will be happy once you join the EU, who don't agree with that rubbish
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