The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

beecher2

.string. wrote: »

Yes - it is hard to escape one's own pre-formed opinions. I was referring though not so much to newspaper articles but to the origins of them. So if one reads a newspaper which claims that Trump has banned foreign apples, the lazy approach is to leave it there but one should then look further through google magic to whether it's all apples or diseased apples or GM apples and so on and base the opinion on that rather than simply reinforcing the stereotype one had before reading the article.

In the end facts become merged with one's own opinions because those are the only facts one entertains and therefore retains.

Intellect can overcome that but that is rare.

That is why, for example, I believe that the best football team in the whole world is AFC Bournemouth rather than these funny teams that only other people have ever heard of.

Haha, Scottish football fans are ever the optimists, even in the face of conflicting evidence.

I like https://www.fullfact.org and wish they could cover more topics

.string.

beecher2 wrote: »

Haha, Scottish football fans are ever the optimists, even in the face of conflicting evidence.

I like www.fullfact.org and wish they could cover more topics

The Scottish football team is rubbish.

The English football team is much better, they are real rubbish.

zagubov

markwilkinson wrote: »

If Scots really want to leave the Union, it's quite simple, I'm suprised they didn't think of it themselves - give the vote to the English!

I'm surprised nobody's thought of it before!:T

elantan

Just reading something Sturgeon has stated about Trump ... aye I'm quite impressed ... I notice May didn't have the guts ... oh well

Thrugelmir

.string. wrote: »

Apart from one thing I'm a bit unconvinced by the theory that the electorate as a whole were felt so disenfranchised that they voted in some for of protest against "the establishment".

Wasn't a protest vote. It showed how out of touch the political elite are with ordinary people. On the ground GDP, trade deals etc mean absolutely nothing. When all people actually want is the opportunity to earn a fair living wage for a days work. Trump broke the conveyor belt mould of legally and politically educated Presidents. As a business person he'll approach everything with a different mindset. Be refreshing to watch. As will shake the self elected establishment to the core. One only has to look at the UK to see our political elite are equally as out of touch and really haven't got a clue as to how to tackle the issues post GFC.

One suspects that is due to the fact that post war economic policy has run it's course. Money expansion on the back of inflation no longer works. Time for new ideas (they are out there).

.string.

Dwelling on the Trump speculations a little longer, a mischievous their occurred to me.

People have been pointing out that Trump is not a politician and has no experience therefore of being a politician that they have forgotten that Trump is not a politician.

Sounds weird? Yes, but it's relevant. Trump's perceptions of politicians may well be that the day and promise all sorts of things but don't actually do them. Especially during elections.

So what we may have seen is a a professional self-seeker acting one the way he thinks politicians behave during an election, but without the "finesse" that a real politician would have. ie it was all an act designed to win the election.

So some of the things he's said were an act.

Can't say I go along with that theory totally but it may have some sort of partial reality.

We will have to wait and see if his rhetoric starts put. Already there are signs that it will not.

Thrugelmir

.string. wrote: »

So what we may have seen is a a professional self-seeker acting one the way he thinks politicians behave during an election, but without the "finesse" that a real politician would have. ie it was all an act designed to win the election.

So some of the things he's said were an act.

Aren't all politicians actors. Their words are manicured. Every public appearance choreographed. With Trump you (appear to) know exactly what you are getting. Warts and all. A real person. Who has no time for posing nor caring what people might think of him.

.string.

A new twist has entered the arena in the context of the Supreme Court. Appeal.

Article 50 could be reversed, government may argue in Brexit case

I mentioned this loophole a couple of times before. Originally I thought it could be a fall back position should agreement not be reached by the end of two years; that thought was reinforced by David Davis's coyness when asked early on about the Government's approach in the event of deadlock in the negotiations. Recently the possibility of withdrawing Article 50 has been dismissed but, as far as I've seen (I may have missed something of course), from the viewpoint of back tracking on Brexit.

Using the Article 50 withdrawal argument could be powerful for the appeal because it would remove A50 as irrevocable and there for not needing Parliament's approval, but it would have risks.

First it would give anti Brexit MPs encouragement to slow things up and maybe force a withdrawal. Only just possible I suppose but potentially a safety valve should things go bottom up.

Second it could also maybe give the EU some leverage if they want to block Brexit. I doubt that because such a move would inevitably result, I think, in a second Brexit referendum and further uncertaincies especially with a lots potentially disgruntled UK thrashing around in the EU.

On the other hand, since the cat is now slightly out of the bag, it could also be used to pressure the EU to finalise a deal, a good deal, or at least an extension of the 2 year period.

Also, and to return to this thread, it should be obvious that letting that particular cat out of the. bag would blow a very large hole in the SNP's argument for their favourite obsession, a new Neverendum. It's difficult to justify a new referendum due to Scotland being dragged ....etc ... when it is both not an established fact and the two alternatives are not there to be assessed.

Moto2

.string. wrote: »

A new twist has entered the arena in the context of the Supreme Court. Appeal.

Article 50 could be reversed, government may argue in Brexit case

It's not a new twist, a few posters and bloggers have mentioned this since the gov lost as the only way an appeal could be won.
I believe , it's very likely that the gov will do this or abandon the appeal altogether.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

Also, and to return to this thread, it should be obvious that letting that particular cat out of the. bag would blow a very large hole in the SNP's argument for their favourite obsession, a new Neverendum. It's difficult to justify a new referendum due to Scotland being dragged ....etc ... when it is both not an established fact and the two alternatives are not there to be assessed.

Never mind. It looks like Scottish Labour might not be that far behind getting on the neverendum/Home Rule train. It's only and was only going to be so long before that particular dam broke with a very right wing Conservative government in power and looking like being there for a while.

Scottish Labour plunged into civil war after deputy leader says party should ditch Unionist ideology

In a seismic intervention that will send shockwaves through the party, Rowley said Scottish Labour had to replace its Unionist stance with an avowedly Socialist and pro-home rule platform.

He said the “status quo” of a Union dominated by Westminster and Whitehall could not deliver the radical social and economic change that left-of-centre Scots want to see. Putting him totally at odds with Kezia Dugdale, Rowley added, “I have never considered myself a Unionist” – and called on Labour to abandon the stance he said was heavily associated with the Tories.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=71603228

Rowley not all in pro independence quite yet (wants Home Rule). But getting there very quickly given it's only been 24 months since the last referendum. Henry McLeish is also just about there now too.

Henry McLeish: What's the point of a union that's unwilling to take Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland seriously?

Our politics and democracy, our governance and constitution are at risk, post Brexit. Broken politics, treacherous and delusional behaviour, represented by cheap patriots such as Gove, Johnson, Patel, Fox and Duncan-Smith, and a lack of any constitutional safeguards are driving a divided Britain to the edge and casting further doubt on Scotland’s continued membership of the UK.
Scotland gained legislative powers under devolution but little real political power, as is being brutally exposed by Theresa May.

Scotland’s First Minister is right to reject the fiction that, post Brexit, there is a one-solution fix for all four nations of the UK.

https://www.holyrood.com/articles/comment/henry-mcleish-whats-point-union-thats-unwilling-take-scotland-wales-and-northern

Scottish Labour are on the turn. Along with a fair swathe of their voters too no doubt.