The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Shakethedisease

beecher2 wrote: »

I don't think anyone thinks it would be a bed of roses after independence.

SNP may well end up out, if there's an alternative party which looks better. Maybe Scottish Labour will get their act together at some point. Maybe their policy of increasing income tax will be more popular when it isn't seen as paying for Westminster imposed austerity. Anything could happen, but it'd be up to the people living in Scotland who was in government.

Yes I agree and I think it's pretty much accepted wisdom that after an independence vote the SNP will fracture quite soon afterwards.

Shakethedisease

beecher2 wrote: »

I think NS will run a very different campaign from AS. I don't think we're anywhere near having an actual referendum and I just hope that all of these things are being worked on at the moment. The lowest point of the 2014 was AS in the 1st televised debate, being incredibly weak on currency.

Many of the 'knowns' aren't actually knowns, they're predictions.

I remember that debate. Real head in hands moment.. Weirdly the next day SNP and Yes hubs were totally flooded with new volunteers. Was as if everyone realised that AS was as fallible as everyone else and couldn't be left to do it all on his own.

kabayiri

Shakethedisease wrote: »

...
Negotiations of course come afterwards. No one can say where they will end up. Neither in Brexit nor after any Scottish ref Yes vote.

If you don't know where the negotiations will end up, as you say, then how can you say we are on track for a Soft or Hard Brexit?

You are in fact acknowledging the possibility of the Brexit deal changing at the 11th hour. After all, this has happened before in EU negotiations with member states.

I'm trying to understand how NS can work the slow Brexit negotiations as a way of justifying an independence referendum before A50 completes.

Have you given up on that now?

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

kabayiri wrote: »

Move forward to Scottish indy ref 2, and we still don't have a definitive answer on the currency. .

Long term it should obviously be the Euro.

We'll presumably need other short term transitional arrangements with the pound until the deficit can be slashed.

But given the UK's entire nuclear deterrent is based in Scotland and moving it would be horrifically expensive and politically near impossible we're not without some negotiating chips in that regard....

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

kabayiri wrote: »

If you don't know where the negotiations will end up, as you say, then how can you say we are on track for a Soft or Hard Brexit?

You are in fact acknowledging the possibility of the Brexit deal changing at the 11th hour. After all, this has happened before in EU negotiations with member states.

Westminster can easily enough prevent a second referendum and the chaos of having to fight two fronts simultaneously - Brexit and preventing the break up of the UK - all Theresa May has to do is announce we'll be staying in the Single Market via applying for the EEA/EFTA route and Indyref2 is off the agenda.

If we keep full membership of the single market and freedom of movement then Scotland's red lines haven't been crossed and Sturgeon knows she won't win.

kabayiri

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Westminster can easily enough prevent a second referendum and the chaos of having to fight two fronts simultaneously - Brexit and preventing the break up of the UK - all Theresa May has to do is announce we'll be staying in the Single Market via applying for the EEA/EFTA route and Indyref2 is off the agenda.
..

If she announces too soon then the long knives in the Tory party will be out. I'd hope she has bodyguard protection!

The Tory party is well known for the rifts over Europe.

Isn't it easier for May to 'secure a victory' during negotiations which were going badly, by doing a last minute deal to stay in a Single Market?

These are politicians we are talking about. They will all aim to come out with a result which can be described as a win.

I suspect she will go in a bit closed to begin with.

mollycat

Shakethedisease wrote: »

You're really best off replying or engaging with others in the this thread if you want a detailed response. Sorry luv.

Hi there

Open forum, I'll post what I want, when I want, where i want, (within forum rules of course).

What's up anyway: is the the thread you started to spread pro indy propaganda dressed up as "political debate" backfiring on a grand scale?

Page after page of posters dismantling the completely illogical case for independence on a daily basis in detail, to which the response is waffle, conjecture, distortion, and a failure to debate legitimate issues.

I know SNP insiders like yourself would like to ignore the scottish based posters like islandannie, AMSJ and myself on these forums and the reason is obvious.....we live and work beside you; we call you out on a daily basis in the streets, pubs and in the workplace. These forums are the last resort; a place where independence supporters could present minority views unhindered, passing them of as the voice of many. However the toys are now out the pram because scottish based posters are coming out of the shadows to tell a UK wide audience they too think the propaganda is nonsense, much the same as the silent majority turned up to vote NO in 2014.

The patronising part of your quote which i have put in bold tells me all about the disregard you have for those who disagree with you

elantan

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Yes I agree and I think it's pretty much accepted wisdom that after an independence vote the SNP will fracture quite soon afterwards.

I have wondered if this is known and planned for by the SNP

elantan

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I remember that debate. Real head in hands moment.. Weirdly the next day SNP and Yes hubs were totally flooded with new volunteers. Was as if everyone realised that AS was as fallible as everyone else and couldn't be left to do it all on his own.

I remember that debate as well ... was spitting feathers about it

A_Medium_Size_Jock

mollycat wrote: »

Hi there

Open forum, I'll post what I want, when I want, where i want, (within forum rules of course).

What's up anyway: is the the thread you started to spread pro indy propaganda dressed up as "political debate" backfiring on a grand scale?

Page after page of posters dismantling the completely illogical case for independence on a daily basis in detail, to which the response is waffle, conjecture, distortion, and a failure to debate legitimate issues.

I know SNP insiders like yourself would like to ignore the scottish based posters like islandannie, AMSJ and myself on these forums and the reason is obvious.....we live and work beside you; we call you out on a daily basis in the streets, pubs and in the workplace. These forums are the last resort; a place where independence supporters could present minority views unhindered, passing them of as the voice of many. However the toys are now out the pram because scottish based posters are coming out of the shadows to tell a UK wide audience they too think the propaganda is nonsense, much the same as the silent majority turned up to vote NO in 2014.

The patronising part of your quote which i have put in bold tells me all about the disregard you have for those who disagree with you

:T
Well said!

Now queue another round of multiple posts of pure blether with no substance to get THAT post "bumped off" the last few easy-to-go-through pages, so that it too can be ignored.

As another poster said in this thread a few days ago:

The more we apply logic and fact the more they jeer, lie and deceive.

Yup, all these posters want is for reality to be suspended so that they can carry on happily posting their inane but amusingly inventive propaganda without interruption - and probably re-post it in other forums as fact.