The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Conrad

I came across this;

THE MOST BRAZEN BRAINWASHING ATTEMPT EVER?

In a normal world the result would have been 60-40 for Leave

If the massed ranks of Government, Political Parties, Banks, Business, Unions, Science, Education, Sport, Charities, TV journalists, International Organisations and Foreign Governments had stayed neutral, does anyone genuinely think the result would not have been at least 60% to leave the EU?
It’s not the slightest exaggeration to describe this as having been a David against Goliath contest.

The Remain campaign was Government-backed. For months it pointed out on a daily basis that Leave had virtually no ‘experts’ nor major organisations on their side. This was compounded with dire threats of immediate recessions and emergency budgets, massive job losses, property crashes, losing £4300 per family, and almost anything else Remain could think of, including wars.

The key factor was that this mass-propaganda had the authority of the Government. It dissuaded a large number of ordinary voters whose natural inclination would otherwise have been to vote Leave.

setmefree2

I was wondering if Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP had committed political suicide on Saturday....I honestly can't see this going down that well in Scotland....

...Just a thought...

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

The politician's favourite tool has got to be the 'blame card'.

Osborne blamed the Eurozone for our slow growth post recession.

Large numbers of poor and uneducated are blamed for Brexit.

Westminster is blamed by the SNP about every half hour or so.

A bit more humility and honesty from the politicians wouldn't be so bad.

Scotland faces some real economic challenges, whether inside the EU or not. Being in the EU hasn't stopped a 15 billion deficit being run up has it?

If the EU is so great why are some of the poorest towns and neighbourhoods in Scotland?

Do you really think the EU is going to pour money into Scotland? Fat chance. Look at the biggest beneficiaries of the EU social cohesion fund. It's places like Poland.

In short regarding Scotland's 'deficit'. Currently there is none, and certainly none that has been 'run up' by any Scottish Government.

The SNP/Scottish Government doesn't run a deficit. It's not allowed to. You should probably know that.

Sigh. The SNP can't run a deficit. They get a fixed grant.

Therefore all their spending commitments are fully funded from their budget. They have no deficit.

<--- a selection of twitter quotes from yesterday when this Scotland's current deficit came up yet again.

If you can point me to the bit where a Scottish Govt can run up any sort of deficit when receiving a fixed block grant then feel free ?

Note that no one is denying there may be a hypothetical deficit on independence, but I am going to point out once again that any current Scottish deficit doesn't actually exist, nor has has any deficit ever been run up by the Scottish Govt. Scotland doesn't have fiscal autonomy so you are in fact crediting completely the wrong Government with running up any hypothetical Scottish deficit. Sturgeon (or Salmond before her ) neither controls nor is the creator of any Scottish deficit. She gets a fixed block grant and by law must underspend annually with it.

Is that clear enough for everyone to understand yet ? There is not and never has been a Scottish Govt created deficit, nor can there be while in receipt of a fixed block grant. Headlines on this being the current state of play in Scotland should be ignored as complete and utter tosh, not taken as fact.

Scotland has no current deficit that's been run up by any Scottish govt. <--- just repeating that once again in the vain hope of it maybe sinking in at some point.

Now about this point you were making..

Scotland faces some real economic challenges, whether inside the EU or not. Being in the EU hasn't stopped a 15 billion deficit being run up has it?

In your opinion. Is this a blame Westminster situation, or is it actually true ?

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Sweetly ironic that now you propose to give away the fishing grounds that brexit will bestow back to Scotland.

Brexit might.. however David Mundell was on tv yesterday and very evasive about this question from Andrew Neil. Talking about having to change the Scotland Act but not actually saying in detail why. I think we can all hazard a guess that repatriating fishing back to Westminster might be in there somewhere.

And there's been 'talk' on twitter.

@IanDunt NB that Brexiters like Martin Howe QC are on this. He's pro un-devolving agri/fish, as different subsidies wld distort competition.

There might be trouble there.

Shakethedisease

setmefree2 wrote: »

I was wondering if Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP had committed political suicide on Saturday....I honestly can't see this going down that well in Scotland....

...Just a thought...

Not really. She's only doing what she's said she's going to do from the start of this Brexit process.

wotsthat

A fixed block grant is sent to Scotland which causes a £15bn UK deficit?

..and Sturgeon hasn't even the good grace to send a thank you note!

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

In short regarding Scotland's 'deficit'. Currently there is none, and certainly none that has been 'run up' by any Scottish Government.

<--- a selection of twitter quotes from yesterday when this Scotland's current deficit came up yet again.

If you can point me to the bit where a Scottish Govt can run up any sort of deficit when receiving a fixed block grant then feel free ?

Note that no one is denying there may be a hypothetical deficit on independence, but I am going to point out once again that any current Scottish deficit doesn't actually exist, nor has has any deficit ever been run up by the Scottish Govt. Scotland doesn't have fiscal autonomy so you are in fact crediting completely the wrong Government with running up any hypothetical Scottish deficit. Sturgeon (or Salmond before her ) neither controls nor is the creator of any Scottish deficit. She gets a fixed block grant and by law must underspend annually with it.

Is that clear enough for everyone to understand yet ? There is not and never has been Scottish Govt created deficit, nor can there be while in receipt of a fixed block grant. Headlines on this being the current state of play in Scotland should be ignored as complete and utter tosh, not taken as fact.

Scotland has no current deficit that's been run up by any Scottish govt. <--- just repeating that once again in the vain hope of it maybe sinking in at some point.

Now about this point you were making..

In your opinion. Is this a blame Westminster situation, or is it actually true ?

of course scotland doesn't have a budget deficit
and of course NI doesn't have a budget deficit
and of course Wales doesn't have a budget deficit
and of the England doesn't have a budget defit.


handy that
but probably represents the thoughts of the finest SNP monds

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

In short regarding Scotland's 'deficit'. Currently there is none, and certainly none that has been 'run up' by any Scottish Government.

<--- a selection of twitter quotes from yesterday when this Scotland's current deficit came up yet again.

If you can point me to the bit where a Scottish Govt can run up any sort of deficit when receiving a fixed block grant then feel free ?

Note that no one is denying there may be a hypothetical deficit on independence, but I am going to point out once again that any current Scottish deficit doesn't actually exist, nor has has any deficit ever been run up by the Scottish Govt. Scotland doesn't have fiscal autonomy so you are in fact crediting completely the wrong Government with running up any hypothetical Scottish deficit. Sturgeon (or Salmond before her ) neither controls nor is the creator of any Scottish deficit. She gets a fixed block grant and by law must underspend annually with it.

Is that clear enough for everyone to understand yet ? There is not and never has been Scottish Govt created deficit, nor can there be while in receipt of a fixed block grant. Headlines on this being the current state of play in Scotland should be ignored as complete and utter tosh, not taken as fact.

Scotland has no current deficit that's been run up by any Scottish govt. <--- just repeating that once again in the vain hope of it maybe sinking in at some point.

Now about this point you were making..

In your opinion. Is this a blame Westminster situation, or is it actually true ?

If there is no Scottish deficit because Scotland is part of the UK then why don't you recognise that the EU referendum vote as a UK wide vote and the fact that a region, council, borough, whatever voted in a particular way is irrelevant, and that this SNP pledge for another indy vote is farcical because Scotland chose to be part of the UK in 2014 in full knowledge of an EU referendum being promised by the Conservatives. Therefore Scotland voted as part of the UK, in a UK wide referendum.

If you want Scotland to be recognised as a region that voted to remain in the EU then we must treat other facts and figures in the same way, no? In which case GERS, signed off by the Scottish government indicates that there would be a shortfall when it came to balancing the books in Scotland.

wotsthat

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

If there is no Scottish deficit because Scotland is part of the UK then why don't you recognise that the EU referendum vote as a UK wide vote and the fact that a region, council, borough, whatever voted in a particular way is irrelevant, and that this SNP pledge for another indy vote is farcical because Scotland chose to be part of the UK in 2014 in full knowledge of an EU referendum being promised by the Conservatives. Therefore Scotland voted as part of the UK, in a UK wide referendum.

If you want Scotland to be recognised as a region that voted to remain in the EU then we must treat other facts and figures in the same way, no? In which case GERS, signed off by the Scottish government indicates that there would be a shortfall when it came to balancing the books in Scotland.

It's the advantage of single issue politics. The disadvantage is people start to ask, if the SNP are so brilliant, why do health outcomes remain poor for Scots etc.

They can only blame 'Westminster' for so long. It's a race against time until people catch on.

Brexit was a gift for the SNP but if it wasn't Brexit it would be something else.

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

If there is no Scottish deficit because Scotland is part of the UK then why don't you recognise that the EU referendum vote as a UK wide vote and the fact that a region, council, borough, whatever voted in a particular way is irrelevant, and that this SNP pledge for another indy vote is farcical because Scotland chose to be part of the UK in 2014 in full knowledge of an EU referendum being promised by the Conservatives. Therefore Scotland voted as part of the UK, in a UK wide referendum.

If you want Scotland to be recognised as a region that voted to remain in the EU then we must treat other facts and figures in the same way, no? In which case GERS, signed off by the Scottish government indicates that there would be a shortfall when it came to balancing the books in Scotland.

You've missed the point. The current narrative doing the rounds big time is that it's the Scottish Govt that has run up and is to blame for this current £15bn Scottish deficit. This is patently and demonstrably untrue. Do you agree ? Do you think the Scottish Govt have run up a deficit or not ?

There's also a difference between deficits when Scotland is independent and deficits while she is still part of the UK. Scotland IS still part of the UK, GERS reflects that. But you shouldn't conflate a deficit as part of the UK with a deficit as an independent country. Which is what a lot of people are actually doing, then trying to apportion blame onto an economically largely powerless Scottish Govt within the UK as if Scotland were already independent.

Scotland is not independent. Therefore blame apportioned to the Scottish Govt now for any £15bn Scottish deficit is complete nonsense. Do you agree with that ?