The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

speaking for all the people of scotland

Most of them who vote, yes.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Most of them who vote, yes.

a bit like the number of voters for brexit

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

As for May refusing one, that's possibly the point. There is now immediate pressure on her to either come right out and say she'll block one, or else admit she can't. Both/either would make for very interesting reactions in Scotland and rUK.

Until Brexit is dealt with. Which is years down the road. Little point in saying anything. I imagine Mrs May has far more important things to do that deal than constantly swotting the fly called Nicola Sturgeon. For that matter shouldn't Nicola Sturgeon be focusing on preparing the economy for independence. Rather than passing comments on everybody elses abilities.

Shakethedisease

Conrad wrote: »

Ah the classic myopia of the Remainer apostles with their halve baked notion of compassion and openness. Must be nice up their on your pious sanctimony perch looking down at the plebs.


Here's one of many harmful EU effects;


http://www.cmo.nl/epa-uk/pdf/source_2_eu_tomatoes_compete_with_ghanian_tomatoes.pdf








Since the European tomato production is more efficient than the Ghanaian, European tomatoes are cheaper, and locally produced tomatoes lose to foreign competition. Ghanaian tomatoes end up rotting away, a situation not without consequences for the Ghanaian tomato producers.


The same thing has happened to poultry farmers in Ghana. Dutch poultry famers export chicken meat – head, feet, and wings; the expensive fillets stay in Europe – and they are cheaper than local producers. These companies go bankrupt. Quite reprehensible; and moreover, detrimental to development, as it seems.




However, if you take a closer look at the matter, the picture changes. European farmers are allowed to export products to Ghana, as long as export subsidies are not involved. They cannot be blamed for this. In order to exclude their tomatoes from its markets, Ghana could raise a tariff wall to make the price differences between European and locally produced tomatoes disappear.


This is permitted within the WTO context. In 2004, within the WTO, the European Union successfully proposed tariffs of a maximum of 75% for particular sectors of the local food production, such as tomatoes and rice, in order to protect these essential components of the local production and industry.


However, Ghana also has the IMF and the World Bank to deal with. Ghana receives support from these international financial institutions. In exchange for this, Ghana has to open its markets to international trade. And what has been decided within the WTO context is absolutely impermissible according to the ultraliberal globalization vision of the IMF and the World Bank. According to this vision, in the case of agricultural products such as tomatoes, tariff walls should not exceed 25%, too low to stop the European tomato. The IMF and the World Bank threaten to impose sanctions if Ghana should raise its tariff walls. Therefore, Ghana has decided ‘voluntarily’ not to raise its tariff walls.

I think Alex massie sums it up rather well from a political viewpoint. But the debate will centre on the Conservative party running the Brexit show, rather than the EU itself.

You should understand that the issue is not the EU per se. The issue is Scotland being told by England what it will do. Not just England, but Tory England. Not just Tory England but right-wing, Ukip-infused, Tory England. Yes, the referendum was a UK-wide plebiscite and we understand that. But there is a distinction to be drawn between an intellectual acceptance of the result and the emotional resonance of that result. You don’t need to be a died-in-woad Nat to feel this; there are plenty of Unionist hackles raised too...

...because, come on, sage and serious people in London know the Jocks aren’t stupid enough to vote for independence. They are, instead, trapped in a Brexit box and that’s worth a chortle or two. Maybe that is so, but many of these sage and serious people are also the the idiots who thought, for reasons best explained by their own ignorance and complacency, that only one in three Scots would vote for independence in 2014.

They were warned not to be fools then but chose not to listen until it was almost too late but I suppose it’s too late – and probably pointless anyway – to warn them not to be fools again.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/10/nicola-sturgeons-cherished-brexit-grievance/

wotsthat

I don't think enough is being done to make it appear to the world that we're a bunch of petulant spoil brats.

Might be time for the Tories to go nuclear and call a general election.

mrginge

Going to be some great campaigning going on north of the border...

Vote leave because we have no idea what staying means.
Or
Vote stay because we have no idea what leaving means.


Come on Nicola let's get this thing rolling!!!!!

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

a bit like the number of voters for brexit

No one is stopping England and Wales from leaving the EU. What's your point ?

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I think Alex massie sums it up rather well from a political viewpoint. But the debate will centre on the Conservative party running the Brexit show, rather than the EU itself.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/10/nicola-sturgeons-cherished-brexit-grievance/

Indeed the issue is not independence for the people of scotland as the SNP wish to give it away immediately they get it (well before really), but the hatred and resentment of the English.

which is why I strongly support scottish independence.

Rinoa

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Haha no. She needs one or even one hanging over Theresa's May's head to ensure Scotland stays in the EU

Theresa May will not abandon Brexit if Scotland threaten to leave the Union. Sturgeon knows that.

It's just another wheeze to set up further confrontation with Westminster. All part of the continuing grudge and grievance strategy.

I sincerely hope it works.

Shakethedisease

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Until Brexit is dealt with. Which is years down the road. Little point in saying anything. I imagine Mrs May has far more important things to do that deal than constantly swotting the fly called Nicola Sturgeon. For that matter shouldn't Nicola Sturgeon be focusing on preparing the economy for independence. Rather than passing comments on everybody elses abilities.

Westminster holds most macro-economic levers regarding Scotland.

Article 50, then to see if it's a soft or hard Brexit. The SNP will be hoping for a soft one in terms of the Scottish economy. As are most Westminster MP's by the sounds of it. We'll all just have to wait and see how things play out. But definitely the option to call a referendum in accordance with how Scotland voted in the EU referendum should absolutely be on the table to clarify where Scotland wishes to be.