The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

It's already running very successfully in some test areas in Scotland. Children's charities back it. Only the Tories abstained on the first vote for it. It's become politically toxic due to some wacky Christian group getting coverage and the other parties jumping in on it ( like the Offensive Behaviour Football Act ) and has now been deferred before full official implementation for a year pending a few data sharing tweaks and possibly 16-17 year olds being removed from the act.

Probably so it's not a distraction in the forthcoming independence referendum.....

That was mentioned on the news this am, in the Highlands I believe, but it was also said it was not the same scheme.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

No Shakey, Scotland would have to wait until it was separated, solvent, and proven its viability, as it would eventually, but not anywhere near 2020.

As far as I can discern, Anderson wrote his article before he was aware that Sturgeon got her come-uppance on June 30th on an application to join the EU.

See here

http://en.mercopress.com/2016/06/30/scotland-pleads-to-stay-in-the-eu-but-spain-rejected-the-idea-if-uk-leaves-scotland-leaves

for an account of what was said by those actually involved rather than someone theorising from the sidelines.

Read again what was said, including this bit:


EU officials stressed, as they did before Scots voted against independence in a 2014 referendum, that Scotland could not apply to join the Union until it was a sovereign state. Senior officials dismissed the notion that Scotland could take over the empty British chair at the European Council table.

Add to that the situation of any Referendum being called illegal and your case will enter the realms of farce for all to see.

To suggest otherwise is to grossly deceive the Scottish people. Shame on the SNP.

Your post above is fantasy from start of finish. The part where Scotland has already apparently applied to the EU and already been refused in particular. I have no idea where you are getting your info from, but it's dreadful. Is it from that blog you linked to ?

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

amasing : a very 'balanced piece' decides that its unlikely that Spain will object to scotland joining the EU
well I would never have guessed that

It doesn't decide or conclude anything. Which is why it's balanced.

Shakethedisease

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Hang on, YOU are the one who said:
Nothing he said in my quote was untrue, so please - instead of infantile name calling and pointing to outdated media reports - stick to your own rules.

I have no problem saying that Gove is a bit of a fibber. His promises of a 'points based immigration system' and Holyrood taking control of fishing and agriculture too ?

I don't think he posts here though does he ? Threads go t***s up when posts start concentrating on individual posters rather than the topic content. Gove is topic content.

Shakethedisease

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Balanced?
Okay, I won't "nit-pick" about that - but the report is now woefully out of date and much has happened since then; things have moved on since July 4th.
Indeed the very first line is "A week is a long time in politics.".
Well, three months is longer.

For example Spain still has no effective government and is facing a further election. Also the Spanish are unlikely to accept iScotland into the EU if at all possible, since it could (in their opinion) pave the way for Catelonia to head in the same direction.
________________________________________________

Meanwhile, I see the latest headlines regarding the SNP and a "cash for access" upset:

offers_up_array_of_conference_perks/" target="_blank">http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/14734901.SNP_in_cash_for_access_storm_as_party_offers_up_array_of_conference_perks/

Oooh another SNP 'scandal' to go with the 100's of others before it. Well, hopefully this one will stick and have their popularity dropping like a stone. Fingers crossed for you eh

Spain. We'll see. Spain has a lot of fishing interests in Scottish waters. In fact Rajoy's constituency is one where fishing is paramount in terms of local employment. Scotland out of the EU would end all that. In fact, remember this ? When Westminster/BetterTogether were having fit's and getting all indignant over an imagined SNP threat to block Spain and Portugal etc ?

28 Jun 2013

SNP in threat to block foreign fishing boats from North Sea

AN INDEPENDENT Scotland would block the North Sea to foreign fishing boats unless it could strike a favourable deal to join the European Union, SNP ministers have warned.
The Scottish Government issued the threat after the UK's Europe minister, David Lidington, raised fresh concerns over the possible terms of an independent Scotland's EU membership.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13111366.SNP_in_threat_to_block_foreign_fishing_boats_from_North_Sea/

The boot is sure on the other foot now. Spain isn't going to be too happy about Westminster blocking their access either. A delicate balancing act for them I daresay balancing fishing with Catalonia. But a choice they'll have to make sooner or later within the next few years.

CLAPTON

CLAPTON wrote: »

amasing : a very 'balanced piece' decides that its unlikely that Spain will object to scotland joining the EU
well I would never have guessed that

lets see

Another string to the SNP’s independence bow is that the EU plays a key role in the internationalist position now endorsed by Nicola Sturgeon. A post-Brexit UK has been portrayed as a ‘diminished Little Britain’, whereas Scotland, according to all parties in the Scottish Parliament, is instead to play an internationalist role: a force for good on the global stage, pro-immigration, pro-freedom of movement and pro-European.

totally fair minded : a little scotland of 5million which has promised NEVER to go to the support of its friends and only wanting to be part of 28 nations
and an internationally minded rUK of 60 million trading with the whole world
but for an SNP acolyte that counts as 'fair' comment.


and on spain position he concludes

Once a new Spanish government is formed, the executive’s position on Scotland retaining EU membership will become much clearer. However, given the influence of Brexit on the general election results, the weak and volatile nature of the Spanish economy, and the support in other European nations, such as Poland, France and crucially Germany, for Scotland replacing the UK as the EU’s 28th member state, it seems very unlikely that Spain would seek to counter this.

again amasingly neutral

Shakethedisease

When Unionist hopes regarding the EU refusing Scotland access seem to depend entirely on a country that uses Scottish fishing waters to keep large parts of it's economy ticking over. And already has 20% unemployment to deal with. Then it's a pretty flimsy case to base the old 'Spain will veto' circa 2014 argument.

In fact, no one is even entirely sure why unionist's and even non-unionists like yourself Clapton are even hoping the EU will refuse. England and Wales are leaving anyway. If they take Scotland with them, then Spain certainly won't be happy with that either.

TrickyTree83

CLAPTON wrote: »

lets see



totally fair minded : a little scotland of 5million which has promised NEVER to go to the support of its friends and only wanting to be part of 28 nations
and an internationally minded rUK of 60 million trading with the whole world
but for an SNP acolyte that counts as 'fair' comment.


and on spain position he concludes



again amasingly neutral

They are rather bizarre points to portray as 'balanced'.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

When Unionist hopes regarding the EU refusing Scotland access seem to depend entirely on a country that uses Scottish fishing waters to keep large parts of it's economy ticking over. And already has 20% unemployment to deal with. Then it's a pretty flimsy case to base the old 'Spain will veto' circa 2014 argument.

In fact, no one is even entirely sure why unionist's and even non-unionists like yourself Clapton are even hoping the EU will refuse. England and Wales are leaving anyway. If they take Scotland with them, then Spain certainly won't be happy with that either.

So from a Spanish perspective, it's better to give the UK a good deal to try to keep access to UK waters and also block Scottish accession. That would tick all their boxes. Would it not?

Given that the above is the only available option at the moment since Scotland is still in the UK, and will be for the foreseeable future. They would have a vested interest in putting down separatist movements.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

When Unionist hopes regarding the EU refusing Scotland access seem to depend entirely on a country that uses Scottish fishing waters to keep large parts of it's economy ticking over. And already has 20% unemployment to deal with. Then it's a pretty flimsy case to base the old 'Spain will veto' circa 2014 argument.

In fact, no one is even entirely sure why unionist's and even non-unionists like yourself Clapton are even hoping the EU will refuse. England and Wales are leaving anyway. If they take Scotland with them, then Spain certainly won't be happy with that either.

I certainly don't want Spain to refuse : as you know I am keen for the voters of scotland to fulfill their historic destiny and become an insignificant part of the Holy European Empire. (1% of the population and 1% of the votes but a lot more than 1% of financial contribution but thats no problem as you will be one of the richest nations in the world once the English no longer subsidise you)

However, I don't allow my 'wishes and hopes' to overcome my commitment to truth and logic and morality.
Rationality and honesty still matter even if they don't support ones most treasured wishes.