The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

TrickyTree83

Hilarious that you think they can position themselves as the lesser of two bad choices.

It's quite obvious where the best choice lies in terms of the money in your pocket.

Shakethedisease

ash28 wrote: »

Regardless of what you would like to happen the chances are it won't happen in the way you want. Nicola Sturgeon met with Michael Roth
yesterday, one of the German foreign minister's underlings and for me the most telling thing he said was:

The rest was just fluff.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/nicola-sturgeon-hailed-as-dedicated-pro-european-in-berlin-1-4198631

Ms Sturgeon did an interview on Tagesthemen yesterday, the interviewer mentioned the fact Ms Sturgeon didn't meet with any important people and also mentioned Spain would block any move. However, Ms Sturgeon said independence was only one option. Same old tag lines.....

https://twitter.com/tagesthemen/status/763062307584827392

That the meeting took place at all is significant. That German ministers were tweeting about it and releasing press releases about 'warm welcome's' is significant. And the fact that Sturgeon did so directly and not through Westminster channels is significant. This would've been completely unthinkable barely two years ago.

The fact that it was all over German tv was an added bonus too ! Fabulous.

Jacek Saryusz-Wolski ‏@JSaryuszWolski Jul 26 Europe Elects
Support for Scottish Independence, YouGov poll:

Germany: 71%

Denmark: 67%

Finland: 66%

Sweden: 64%

France: 61%

BBC Scotland hardly mentioned it. And most UK media went to great pains to paint Roth as a lowly insignificant nobody. Par for the course these days and not surprising. But we can all read between the lines. In 2014 Sturgeon or Salmond would've been stonewalled.

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Hilarious that you think they can position themselves as the lesser of two bad choices.

It's quite obvious where the best choice lies in terms of the money in your pocket.

Lesser of two bad choices in the wake of a Brexit. Otherwise translated as the UK is going down the pan anyway over this out of the EU thing..do you really want to go stick around while that happens. Oh and with added Tory governments for the next 10 years ?

What the best choice in terms of the money in your pocket will depend on what the PM and her Brexit ministers can come up with. We'll happily wait and see what comes out over the next few months. But it better be good, and it's not 100% down to the money in one's pocket for a lot of independence waverers either.

TrickyTree83

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Lesser of two bad choices in the wake of a Brexit. Otherwise translated as the UK is going down the pan anyway over this out of the EU thing..do you really want to go stick around while that happens. Oh and with added Tory governments for the next 10 years ?

What the best choice in terms of the money in your pocket will depend on what the PM and her Brexit ministers can come up with. We'll happily wait and see what comes out over the next few months. But it better be good, and it's not 100% down to the money in one's pocket for a lot of independence waverers either.

The UK isn't going down the pan is it. The sun still rises in the east and sets in the west, the world still turns, I can still buy tinned tomatoes from ASDA, or sunflower oil from Tesco, etc..etc... I imagine the same can be said for people in Scotland too. Everyone conveniently ignores trade deals we can sign with countries outside the EU when citing outcomes of brexit. As you well know my ideal would be single market membership, plus free trade with the rest of the world, or as close as we could get to that. No damage to any trade. Certainly in that situation iScotland would be more of a possibility as trade wouldn't be affected between Scotland and rUK. It'll just cost Scotland more to do the things they'd like to do rather than pooling resource like we do now. But hey ho.

Conservative governments being bad by default is a matter of perspective. Personally I don't feel that they are, they understand that taxing the rich too much is detrimental (see laffer curve) and run the economy pretty well.

It may not be 100% down to the pound in the pocket for you, but it probably will be for the majority regardless of how much they shout and scream in opposition to keeping it. In fact the choice between EU trade and UK trade is more stark in other areas of the UK than in Scotland. Scotland is by far better off limiting damage to 64% of its trade than trying to limit damage to 15% of its trade.

ruggedtoast

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Lesser of two bad choices in the wake of a Brexit. Otherwise translated as the UK is going down the pan anyway over this out of the EU thing..do you really want to go stick around while that happens. Oh and with added Tory governments for the next 10 years ?

What the best choice in terms of the money in your pocket will depend on what the PM and her Brexit ministers can come up with. We'll happily wait and see what comes out over the next few months. But it better be good, and it's not 100% down to the money in one's pocket for a lot of independence waverers either.

How's it going over here Shakey?

I imagine you are having a similar experience to me over on the Jeremy Corbyn threads.

But one can't give up.

Shakethedisease

ruggedtoast wrote: »

How's it going over here Shakey?

I imagine you are having a similar experience to me over on the Jeremy Corbyn threads.

But one can't give up.

So so. Still is better round about this area than down in DT. Where there are giggly Jimmy Krankie meme's galore whenever Sturgeon is mentioned and the Telegraph and the Express are regarded as 'proof' of pretty much anything.

I imagine it's pretty much the same for you. I hope Corbyn wins again.. SNP voters like him and wish him well too. On twitter at the moment Scottish Labour head honchos are having a collective meltdown because the Shadow Sec of State for Scotland - has indicated that at some vague point in the future, Labour may, just might consider if absolutely necessary.. some kind of loose deal with the SNP in order to keep the Tories out in 2020. Half of Scottish Labour are behind Corbyn all the way. But Kezia Dugdale and others want him out asap.

ruggedtoast

Shakethedisease wrote: »

So so. Still is better round about this area than down in DT. Where there are giggly Jimmy Krankie meme's galore whenever Sturgeon is mentioned and the Telegraph and the Express are regarded as 'proof' of pretty much anything.

I imagine it's pretty much the same for you. I hope Corbyn wins again.. SNP voters like him and wish him well too. On twitter at the moment Scottish Labour head honchos are having a collective meltdown because the Shadow Sec of State for Scotland - has indicated that at some vague point in the future, Labour may, just might consider if absolutely necessary.. some kind of loose deal with the SNP in order to keep the Tories out in 2020. Half of Scottish Labour are behind Corbyn all the way. But Kezia Dugdale and others want him out asap.

I don't see a problem with working with the SNP to form a government. If the Lib Dems managed to do so with the Tories I should think it would be a fairly simple process.

Of course the SNP are going to have to accommodate some proper Socialism in the process though.

Thrugelmir

Shakethedisease wrote: »

That the meeting took place at all is significant. That German ministers were tweeting about it and releasing press releases about 'warm welcome's' is significant. And the fact that Sturgeon did so directly and not through Westminster channels is significant. This would've been completely unthinkable barely two years ago.

Germany is not the EU.

Shakethedisease

ruggedtoast wrote: »

I don't see a problem with working with the SNP to form a government. If the Lib Dems managed to do so with the Tories I should think it would be a fairly simple process.

The leader of Scottish Labour has HUGE problem with it. The deputy leader.. not so much. Kezia Dugdale is being trolled on Twitter by Ruth Davidson as I type (not my screenshot )

Of course the SNP are going to have to accommodate some proper Socialism in the process though.

Most will be quite happy to accommodate a fair bit of it ( Mhari Black, Tommy Sheppard among others )... but lets not forget that in order to win independence that it's wavering 2014 No voters to the right of those that have to be won over.

Until independence though, like in 2014 Sturgeon would be more than happy to do any deal that keeps the Tories out. UK Labour are coming around to the fact that it might be a possibility to at least try. Scottish Labour are having absolutely none of it. I don't think Kezia will last much longer though if Corbyn wins again. Imo Alex Rowley ( the deputy ) and others like Neil Findlay are only biding their time, perhaps until the local council elections are over.

Shakethedisease

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Germany is not the EU.

The fact that ANY EU country was willing to give her the time of day without explicit Westminster say so is significant. Never mind tweeting all over the place about warm welcomes to 'committed Europeans'.