The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Herzlos

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

If you choose to vote for a party that can never be a majority in Westminster, whose fault is that? Not the English, Welsh or Northern Irish. In the Scottish government it's different, but in a UK general election if you vote for the SNP how can you ever expect to not be in opposition? If Labour wasn't an option or the Tories, you'd have been better off voting Lib Dem, but you don't.

That only really leaves the Tories then?

Being in a minority party is fine, my point is more that a country can vote 100% against something and still have it happen.

1. Increasing the lower threshold of income tax.

Wasn't that a Lib Dem thing from the coalition?

The guy wrote a book, it doesn't make it government policy. There's a lot more people in a government than just Jeremy Hunt.

True. But then when the Tory Health Minister writes a proposal on NHS privatization, it goes some way to explain his stance on it?
If it was written by someone else I'd agree with you.

I heard someone from the SNP say if there was a nuclear attack that Faslane would be a target and it would wipe out most of Scotland, therefore it's not wanted.

Most of the arguments I've seen are based around it being pointless and a waste of money. "We can't afford to pay our pensioners on time, but we can afford Trident?" (Paraphrasing of Mhairi Black)

Faslane, where there are no active subs wouldn't be a major target. London would be. Command and control structures would be. Infrastructure would be.

I'm pretty sure the UK C&C system is well outside of damage from a London attack, but I don't disagree that Faslane isn't going to be a priority target. I'm more concerned about Nuclear accident than attack.

I happen to live in the town where the National Grid control centre is, they've got nuclear bunkers because it's an infrastructure target. If an enemy wants to knock out our electrical grid, I'm dead. Am I making a massive amount of noise about that? No. Why? Because we have a deterrent that makes people think twice about launching against us.

The thing is, the Nation Grid provides a huge benefit worth the risk of having a central failure point. Does Trident?

beecher2

Herzlos wrote: »

I'm more concerned about Nuclear accident than attack.

Me too, especially when the trident convoy is travelling along Scottish motorways.

Laughing at the thought of being better off voting Lib Dem rather than SNP

TrickyTree83

Herzlos wrote: »

That only really leaves the Tories then?

Being in a minority party is fine, my point is more that a country can vote 100% against something and still have it happen.



Wasn't that a Lib Dem thing from the coalition?


True. But then when the Tory Health Minister writes a proposal on NHS privatization, it goes some way to explain his stance on it?
If it was written by someone else I'd agree with you.



Most of the arguments I've seen are based around it being pointless and a waste of money. "We can't afford to pay our pensioners on time, but we can afford Trident?" (Paraphrasing of Mhairi Black)


I'm pretty sure the UK C&C system is well outside of damage from a London attack, but I don't disagree that Faslane isn't going to be a priority target. I'm more concerned about Nuclear accident than attack.



The thing is, the Nation Grid provides a huge benefit worth the risk of having a central failure point. Does Trident?

You see, this is where the left is blind to what it doesn't want to see.

I got so angry after reading your first two responses that I instantly hit reply. It doesn't just leave the Tories does it. The Lib Dem vote in the rest of the UK combined with a Lib Dem Scottish vote would give you a larger party. As it is, the Scottish people have opted to put their faith in a party that can only ever be in opposition or a coalition. If the SNP stood elsewhere around the UK, it'd make more sense.

After the 2015 GE we had a Conservative majority, did they or did they not further increase the lower threshold of income tax with no further input from the Lib Dems? So the nasty party did it on their own, no outside influences. Is poor people paying less tax a bad thing?

About Jeremy Hunt's book. It's just a book. It's not government policy, unless he can get a majority in parliament it'll never become legislation or law. It's just Jeremy Hunt. The government does not want to privatise the NHS, it's just leftist hyperbole you're throwing out there.

Regarding your concern about a nuclear accident. Do you know how many nuclear power plants there are in the UK as a whole?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_the_United_Kingdom

Why are you, along with the English and Welsh not up in arms about these plants?

It's got sod all to do with a nuclear accident, particularly when these power plants are operated by private companies who are more likely to cut back on safety than the MOD dealing with nuclear submarines and weaponry.

It's just another issue the left, in particular the SNP want to use to whip up anti-Westminster sentiment without it being grounded in logic.

Regarding the cost, it's lifetime cost is £205bn (using the critics figure, the independent commission reckoned it was £100bn ) over a 50 year period. That works out at £4.1bn per year out of the MOD's budget. Because of that the MOD has less to spend on other equipment. It doesn't affect other areas of spending unless the MOD budget is decreased by that amount and the money ploughed elsewhere.

But living in a town which is a nuclear target I'm quite pleased there is a system to deter people from killing me thanks. Anyone not in a nuclear target zone taking the moral high ground clearly isn't taking into account the feelings of the people in these target zones.

The thing is, the Nation Grid provides a huge benefit worth the risk of having a central failure point. Does Trident?

You do know Trident isn't a single point of failure system don't you? The active subs aren't in Faslane, they're nowhere near Scotland. They're nowhere near the UK for that matter, they're strategically placed to cover the majority of the globe in terms of their firing arc.

beecher2

Tricky, The SNP government doesn't support nuclear power and there's a policy of no new nuclear power stations in Scotland.

.string.

Herzlos wrote: »

Is that why Scotland seems to vote entirely differently yet is still ignored?

Can you name one single thing the Tories have done that benefits someone outside of London?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-hunt-privatise-nhs-tories-privatising-private-insurance-market-replacement-direct-democracy-a6865306.html


I'd rather we got rid of it entirely; it protects us from nothing, provides no actual benefit, yet costs us a huge amount of cash and risk. If you feel safer with it, you house it.

Drivel, complete drivel. Those are slogans you are parroting, not arguments, gossip, not actual policies, Whinges not policies, xenophobic fairy tales, not actuality..

As for your remark about the Tories, try asking a Tory in Scotland - there are plenty of them.

You really are swallowing the SNP line, hock, lie and stinker.

TrickyTree83

beecher2 wrote: »

Me too, especially when the trident convoy is travelling along Scottish motorways.

Laughing at the thought of being better off voting Lib Dem rather than SNP

Most of the things you say are hilarious unfortunately.

I was making the point that you'd have a greater voice in the UK government if you didn't consistently vote for a minority party, and then complain about having a minority voice in parliament. If Labour's not an option for you and the Conservatives aren't either, you've got a choice of (regarding the larger-ish parties) Greens, SNP and Lib Dem. Out of the 3 there's only 2 which have a presence elsewhere in the UK.

Shakethedisease

beecher2 wrote: »

Tricky, The SNP government doesn't support nuclear power and there's a policy of no new nuclear power stations in Scotland.

Neither do Scottish Labour ( which Tricky and string conveniently brush out of the picture).

Scottish Labour party delegates have backed a vote to scrap the UK's Trident nuclear missile system, which is based at Faslane naval base on the Clyde.A motion at the party's conference in Perth calling for the system not to be renewed was supported by an overwhelming majority.
Both party members and unions voted 70% in favour of the motion.
It means Labour now holds different positions on the issue north and south of the border.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34687735

Herzlos

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

You see, this is where the left is blind to what it doesn't want to see.

I got so angry after reading your first two responses that I instantly hit reply. It doesn't just leave the Tories does it. The Lib Dem vote in the rest of the UK combined with a Lib Dem Scottish vote would give you a larger party. As it is, the Scottish people have opted to put their faith in a party that can only ever be in opposition or a coalition. If the SNP stood elsewhere around the UK, it'd make more sense.

I get where you are coming from now and it makes sense. I'm happy for my government to be a coalition though (and to think how it'd have gone in Labour hadn't refused to join a coalition with SNP)

After the 2015 GE we had a Conservative majority, did they or did they not further increase the lower threshold of income tax with no further input from the Lib Dems? So the nasty party did it on their own, no outside influences. Is poor people paying less tax a bad thing?

You are right, they did. It also benefited London though.

About Jeremy Hunt's book. It's just a book. It's not government policy, unless he can get a majority in parliament it'll never become legislation or law. It's just Jeremy Hunt. The government does not want to privatise the NHS, it's just leftist hyperbole you're throwing out there.

Maybe, lets re-visit that in a few years?

Regarding your concern about a nuclear accident. Do you know how many nuclear power plants there are in the UK as a whole?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_the_United_Kingdom

Why are you, along with the English and Welsh not up in arms about these plants?

Because nuclear power is useful, and worth the risk.

Regarding the cost, it's lifetime cost is £205bn (using the critics figure, the independent commission reckoned it was £100bn ) over a 50 year period. That works out at £4.1bn per year out of the MOD's budget. Because of that the MOD has less to spend on other equipment. It doesn't affect other areas of spending unless the MOD budget is decreased by that amount and the money ploughed elsewhere.

Indeed the money would be for the MOD to spend. Or they could have their budget reduced and the money spent elsewhere.

You do know Trident isn't a single point of failure system don't you? The active subs aren't in Faslane, they're nowhere near Scotland. They're nowhere near the UK for that matter, they're strategically placed to cover the majority of the globe in terms of their firing arc.

Generally, only 1 sub it out in the world at a time, unless there's something going on. Also, the Warheads don't live at Faslane, but a strike on Faslane would render all but the active subs useless.

I believe it's generally positioned for listening / hiding rather than targetting.

beecher2

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Most of the things you say are hilarious unfortunately.

I was making the point that you'd have a greater voice in the UK government if you didn't consistently vote for a minority party, and then complain about having a minority voice in parliament. If Labour's not an option for you and the Conservatives aren't either, you've got a choice of (regarding the larger-ish parties) Greens, SNP and Lib Dem. Out of the 3 there's only 2 which have a presence elsewhere in the UK.

We want a party that represents Scotland's interests. I voted SNP because the candidate was excellent (the LibDem was possibly the worst performer I've ever witnessed at a hustings), because I supported their manifesto and because I want independence. I believe that the SNP contingent have done more for getting Scotland's voice put across than any other set of MPs. I believe our needs will never be paramount in Westminster which is one of the reasons I support independence.

For all the time you've spent on this thread, you still don't understand the first thing about Scotland. You are just getting angrier and angrier, thinking we are fools. I really do not get why you should spend so much time on a topic you don't even want to understand.

TrickyTree83

beecher2 wrote: »

Tricky, The SNP government doesn't support nuclear power and there's a policy of no new nuclear power stations in Scotland.

Why aren't they campaigning to shut them down in parliament then?

I've heard nothing from Angus Robertson about these powers stations, but plenty about Trident.

http://blogs.channel4.com/michael-crick-on-politics/salmond-tells-edf-independent-gov-nuclear-plants/4307

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-17266084

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/11961424/Engineers-urge-SNP-to-drop-irrational-energy-policy.html

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/environment/14408137.Nuclear_power_has_bigger_share_in_Scotland_s_economy_than_England/

http://www.scotsman.com/news/environment/scots-could-import-electricity-unless-snp-changes-plan-1-3931074