The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

CLAPTON

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

he line.

If you force us to choose between the UK and the EU Scotland will choose the EU....

So if May doesn't want her legacy to be the break up of the UK she'll go for Brexit-Light.

It will be interesting to see how it all turns out.

Is it likely that Scotland will be able to vote YES/NO again whilst knowing its EU status?
Last time the people of scotland didn't know or seem to care but if the sole reason for leaving the Uk is o join the EU then things may be different.

Herzlos

CLAPTON wrote: »

It will be interesting to see how it all turns out.

Is it likely that Scotland will be able to vote YES/NO again whilst knowing its EU status?
Last time the people of scotland didn't know or seem to care but if the sole reason for leaving the Uk is o join the EU then things may be different.

Part of the scaremongering campaign against leaving before was that if we left the UK we'd also have to leave the EU. All of those people that voted to remain for the EU will now vote to leave for the EU.

Personally, I value the EU over the UK too. I used to be very pro-union but after seeing what's happening with England and the Tories (even though we're somewhat isolated from it due to various devolutions - they can't harm our NHS or eduction systems) , as well as the very clear political distinction across the border, I really think Scotland is best being a completely separate entity.

robin61

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

The chances of the leave camp just shutting up and accepting the result had they lost is precisely zero. (See Scotland for precedence on that matter)

You don't see any political party losing an election and saying, "ah well, we'll spend the next 5 years being quiet and supporting our opponents"...

Of course not.

They agitate, hold the opposition to account, try to obstruct the parts of their agenda they disagree with, and generally do whatever they can to get the general public to change their minds by the next election.

Anyone that thinks this matter is settled for the long term is dreaming.

There will be a significant push, supported by almost half the population of Britain, to delay, cancel, water down, avoid, or in later years reverse any Brexit.

And as for Scotland, if the proposed Brexit doesn't look a lot like what we have now, in terms of single market access and free movement, that'll be enough to push Indy over the line.

If you force us to choose between the UK and the EU Scotland will choose the EU....

So if May doesn't want her legacy to be the break up of the UK she'll go for Brexit-Light.

The EU decision was made by majority of people in the UK who voted. We did not vote to remain in the EU in all but name. we voted to leave. That now needs to be respected. We are not going to be blackmailed by a minority of the population who are separatists. Scotland is not a Sovereign Nation. They had the opportunity to be one and decided against it so now they need to respect the decision the UK has made.

If people don't t agree with a decision of course you cannot stop them from voicing their opinion. But that does not give them the right to ignore the decision.

Re running any referendum so quickly to appease the minority is not acceptable as it creates uncertainty indefinitely for the whole of the UK. So it should not happen it is up to the UK whether an Indy referendum happens again not the SNP. They need to learn that decisions need to be honoured. Or maybe it would have been fine to ignore a Yes vote in 2014 ? I don' t think they would have liked that !

TrickyTree83

They'll just spout the same rubbish at you over and over again robin.

i.e. it's not fair, that they only voted to stay in the UK to stay in the EU, that Scottish politics demands it, that the whole of Scotland is behind them, etc... etc... ad infinitum

Call them out on it and they deflect. Point out the economic tragedy that awaits and they ignore it. The latest was that re-orienting ~20% of UK trade with the EU will be a massive pain but re-orienting ~64% of Scottish trade will be easy peasy, that 15% of Scottish trade with the EU is the be all and end all of Scottish tax revenue requirements and the path to a better brighter future.

Good on you for trying though.

robin61

Herzlos wrote: »

Part of the scaremongering campaign against leaving before was that if we left the UK we'd also have to leave the EU. All of those people that voted to remain for the EU will now vote to leave for the EU.

.

I disagree. The UK is the EU member not Scotland. There will be no negotiation between the EU and Scotland while Scotland is part of the UK. They would have to leave the UK and then apply and there is no guarantee when or even if they would be able to join. The terms may wel! be with the Euro and Shengen ! Would the majority of Scots want to take the chance and believe the SNP' s promises. I am far from convinced but as I have said the decision to remain in the UK in 2014 needs to be respected anyway because the disruption it causes to the majority by a vocal minority is unacceptable.

robin61

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

They'll just spout the same rubbish at you over and over again robin.

i.e. it's not fair, that they only voted to stay in the UK to stay in the EU, that Scottish politics demands it, that the whole of Scotland is behind them, etc... etc... ad infinitum

Call them out on it and they deflect. Point out the economic tragedy that awaits and they ignore it. The latest was that re-orienting ~20% of UK trade with the EU will be a massive pain but re-orienting ~64% of Scottish trade will be easy peasy, that 15% of Scottish trade with the EU is the be all and end all of Scottish tax revenue requirements and the path to a better brighter future.

Good on you for trying though.

Yes I agree. Bottom line is that I am not prepared to just sit back and say nothing while the SNP tries to blackmail the rest of the UK and ignores decisions they do not like.

CLAPTON

Herzlos wrote: »

Part of the scaremongering campaign against leaving before was that if we left the UK we'd also have to leave the EU. All of those people that voted to remain for the EU will now vote to leave for the EU.

Personally, I value the EU over the UK too. I used to be very pro-union but after seeing what's happening with England and the Tories (even though we're somewhat isolated from it due to various devolutions - they can't harm our NHS or eduction systems) , as well as the very clear political distinction across the border, I really think Scotland is best being a completely separate entity.

my point was nothing to do with the vile english.

It may (or may not ) be the case, but if there is a new scottish referendum then the voters may have to vote 'blind' i.e. without knowing what the timescales or terms for EU entry assuming that the scots wanted to throw away independence so soon.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

robin61 wrote: »

The terms may wel! be with the Euro and Shengen ! .

That would do nicely.

Herzlos

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

They'll just spout the same rubbish at you over and over again robin.

i.e. it's not fair, that they only voted to stay in the UK to stay in the EU, that Scottish politics demands it, that the whole of Scotland is behind them, etc... etc... ad infinitum

Call them out on it and they deflect. Point out the economic tragedy that awaits and they ignore it. The latest was that re-orienting ~20% of UK trade with the EU will be a massive pain but re-orienting ~64% of Scottish trade will be easy peasy, that 15% of Scottish trade with the EU is the be all and end all of Scottish tax revenue requirements and the path to a better brighter future.

Good on you for trying though.

I don't get this though; it's an economic wonder for the UK to split off, whilst it'd be a disaster if Scotland split off?

Sure, we'll probably take a bit of a hit if trading with England becomes harder, but on the converse; if trading between the England and the EU becomes harder, there's more incentive for English Businesses to cross the border to interact with the EU again.

The reason I want Scotland to be independent because I value the EU, in terms of trade, legislation and movement, whilst I feel that the Tories are the worst thing that can happen to the country.

Sure, there's no guarantee that we'd get into the EU properly, but I can't see us doing any worse than under a hard Brexit. I'd love to stay in the UK (within the EU) but that option is gone now.

Rinoa

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

If you force us to choose between the UK and the EU Scotland will choose the EU....

..........

:wave: