The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

mollycat

Tromking wrote: »

Another hapless Nat on the Andrew Neil Show struggling to put any form of coherence to the SNP’s plans for the Scottish economy post Indy.
How are these Jokers taken seriously by so many Scots?

Hilarious and jaw dropping, even by the usual inept standard of SNP spokespersons attempting to explain iScotland finances

Almost felt sorry for the guy; someone who will never again be allowed near the media.

Andrew Niel..."Joining the EU will neccesitate you dealing with your £10 Billion deficit, how will you do that?"

SNP...."We will remove all nuclear weapons from scottish soil."

Andrew Neil....."That's about £600 Million, how will you manage the rest?"

SNP.....Embarrassed pause followed by garbled nonsense

Any future NO campaign simply has to run this stuff to highlight the economic argument.

We all know there is no answer to the deficit question.

Which is why Scots will never vote for Indy; despite how "badly treated" some of the posters feel by WM.

Tromking

mollycat wrote: »

Which is why Scots will never vote for Indy; despite how "badly treated" some of the posters feel by WM.

I think even the most anti-English poster like herzlos, realises that the euphoria of escaping the 'tyranny' of English rule will quickly be replaced with a "Oh dear, what have we done" mentality when faced with the reality. It was nice of Andrew Neil to put a number on the amount of jobs (12,000) that will be repatriated to England when an independent Scotland hoofs the UK's nuclear deterrent from its shores.
Plymouth or possibly Falmouth would love that sort of UK state investment.

Herzlos

I'm definitely not anti-English. I'm anti-Westminster, just like you. I'd be perfectly happy with further devolution (including the EU powers we were promised then denied), and to be treated as an equal party within a UK within the EU. I was very much a unionist until very late on in the referendum when I saw how Westminster was treating us.



I dare say that as "Project Fear" is claiming, we'll lose some jobs down to England, but some will also be created and come back up.

How many jobs based in England are based on Scottish resources? I don't know, but neither do you.

How many jobs will Brexit cost us? We're due to suffer a lot worse than London.




Should we rejoin the EU (as confirmed by various EU sources), then there's a very high possibility that a lot of English jobs will move North of the wall to get back into the EU. It's logistically a lot easier than moving to Dublin since there's no sea to deal with.



As I keep saying, there are plenty of Leavers who are willing to make their lives much worse to leave the fictional bogeyman of the EU (or in your case, to 'stick it up the elite'), so I don't understand why you can't get your head around Scots being willing to do the same to regain actual control.

kangoora

Tromking wrote: »

I think even the most anti-English poster like herzlos, realises that the euphoria of escaping the 'tyranny' of English rule will quickly be replaced with a "Oh dear, what have we done" mentality when faced with the reality. It was nice of Andrew Neil to put a number on the amount of jobs (12,000) that will be repatriated to England when an independent Scotland hoofs the UK's nuclear deterrent from its shores.
Plymouth or possibly Falmouth would love that sort of UK state investment.

Not forgetting the 35,000 UK government jobs based in Scotland (UK not Scottish government) - that's directly employed by the UK government. Add another, say 15k, jobs in support and infrastructure - circa 50k jobs lost/moved back to England/Wales/N. Ireland. There's a reason they are there and not in India/Pakistan/Czech Rep. - UK government data is not allowed to be held offshore and Indy Scotland would be 'offshore' as an independent country.

Also, as a citizen of another country then shouldn't all Scottish people resident in UK be treated as immigrants and required to pass the proposed new immigration points test - I wonder how many unemployed (or in minimum wage employment) scots in the rest of the UK would need to be re-patriated north of the border after failing the points test?

zagubov

kangoora wrote: »

Also, as a citizen of another country then shouldn't all Scottish people resident in UK be treated as immigrants and required to pass the proposed new immigration points test - I wonder how many unemployed (or in minimum wage employment) scots in the rest of the UK would need to be re-patriated north of the border after failing the points test?

Crikey! Where's this going? As the Irish living in Britain are clearly citizens of another country as well, does that mean suggesting we abolish the Common Travel Area by setting up some kind of a celt-kicking-out festival?

Looks around to see if there are any posts suggesting Scotland should kick foreigners out. Nope, none. :whistle:

Clears up any doubts about which side's got problems accepting foreigners. :think:

kangoora

Why not?

I don't quite understand why Ireland and an Indy Scotland should have any special privileges more than those born in Pakistan, USA or Germany?

Whilst I can understand crown dependencies having rights I'm unclear why Ireland (and possibly Scotland in the future) are even part of it at all - it's not like Ireland is a crown dependency is it?

It wouldn't bother me in the slightest if Ireland and Scotland proposed the same principles.

BTW, it's my personal opinion, not sure how you arrived at the conclusion that I represent the whole of the population - bit of a stretch there.....

Herzlos

zagubov wrote: »

Crikey! Where's this going? As the Irish living in Britain are clearly citizens of another country as well, does that mean suggesting we abolish the Common Travel Area by setting up some kind of a celt-kicking-out festival?

Looks around to see if there are any posts suggesting Scotland should kick foreigners out. Nope, none. :whistle:

Clears up any doubts about which side's got problems accepting foreigners. :think:

I've been aware for a while of completely different approaches to nationalism between Scotland/Wngland, which explains some of the hatred.
Scottish nationalism is about the people in Scotland, English nationalism is about people from England.

SpiderLegs

Herzlos wrote: »

I was very much a unionist until very late on in the referendum when I saw how Westminster was treating us.

Yes I can see why you got so cross at all that extra money being thrown in your direction.

Moby

mollycat wrote: »

@Herzlos


I don't oppose Independence because I vote Tory, (I don't), or because I am 100% in love with the UK as a union of nations, and I don't oppose it because I am less Scottish than you or the other pro indy posters here.

I oppose it because I can clearly see our young and old, ill and vulnerable screaming blue murder only a few years into an Independent scotland because there is no money to pay for the services to keep them safe, warm and well.

IF we become Independent, I hope all those who led their fellow countrymen into a perilous fiscal future have the courage to stand up and look their fellow Scot's in the face and say "I voted YES"

I want no part of it, and I'll do as much as I can to stop it.

The problem is your post is predicated on the fact/hope that people make decisions based on economics. Sometimes they do but in relation to Scottish independence, other forces are in play now, the same forces that destroyed Labour in Scotland. I think Scotland will go independent for the same reasons Ireland did in 1922. If a group of people consider themselves a nation state, they will want to govern themselves no matter what the consequences. Ireland suffered years of economic hardship in the years following independence, did you hear a clamour in Ireland to return to being part of the UK, no you didn't.

The question the SNP have to answer is if Scotland goes independent, what about the border with England, an England outside the EU? Probably what happens in N Ireland will be used as a template for the future relationship? We'll see in the coming years.

Fran_Klee

Moby wrote: »

..... If a group of people consider themselves a nation state, they will want to govern themselves no matter what the consequences. .....

Ah, so just like Brexit then?

People might not make decisions made on economics but rather on what they see.
You should look at the responses inside Scotland to the effects of SNP "government" because, if you did, you'd see just how much negativity there already is towards the SNP for pretty much anything they have a hand in controlling.
The police; the NHS; education; etc. etc. etc.