The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

IveSeenTheLight

That's your prerogative should you not wish to consider all their issues and take a balanced viewpoint.

We should hold to account ANY Scottish Government on what they are doing for the people of Scotland

kabayiri

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

...
Hopefully this clarifies just a flavour of all the issues the SNP represents

Dazed and confused then.

Tell me, why should I accept UK-wide policy from a party which doesn't even offer me a chance to vote for them in my constituency?

Suppose UKIP won the election but did not contest Scotland. If one of their manifesto promises was to scrap free education in Scotland, would you accept it lightly?

cogito

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

No, not at all.
You've missinterpreted.

Police is a devolved matter.
VAT is not.

The Scottish government have centralised the Police with I believe the essence of being more efficient centrally (and we could all point out some failures so far).

I do not know the details, but surely it seems reasonable to adjust and allow a mechanism for the VAT to be claimed back as it is throughout the UK.

There should be a workable solution.

Otherwise are you inferring that powers can be devolved but limitations placed on what can be done with the devolved powers

I haven't misinterpreted at all. That's exactly what you said.

The Scottish government ploughed on with centralising the police in the full knowledge that VAT was an issue or they didn't which would be sheer incompetence. Why on earth should the rules be changed in these circumstances?

I inferred nothing in my post and if you think that you are even sillier than I thought.

IveSeenTheLight

cogito wrote: »

I haven't misinterpreted at all. That's exactly what you said.

The Scottish government ploughed on with centralising the police in the full knowledge that VAT was an issue or they didn't which would be sheer incompetence. Why on earth should the rules be changed in these circumstances?

I inferred nothing in my post and if you think that you are even sillier than I thought.

You must not realise that it had the backing of the Scottish Conservatives as well as it being part of their manifesto.

The Scottish Conservatives support the restructuring of police services in Scotland. Indeed, the creation of a single police force was a feature of our 2011 election manifesto. It is clear that in the current economic climate, savings have to be made throughout the public sector. A single force has the potential to create a more efficient police service for Scotland, and it is clear that the status quo of eight separate services is not an option, particularly if the current levels of front-line policing are to be maintained.

Is it progressive, flexible and efficient Scotland with the savings being passed on to Westminster? Sure seems like it

cogito

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Is it progressive, flexible and efficient Scotland with the savings being passed on to Westminster? Sure seems like it

What's your evidence for this? There seems to be a crisis at the top of the Scottish police as a quick google suggests. A fish rots from the head.

Shaka_Zulu

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Hopefully this clarifies just a flavour of all the issues the SNP represents

Complete and utter tosh from a party that can only represent <10% of the total seats in the UK.

They can spout (and often do) any meaningless twaddle because they will never have to implement it.

Two days to go Ding Dong!

Shaka_Zulu

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I get really, really bored seeing posts like yours and cog's. Posts that don't even have the vaguest notion of what they are talking about,

Perhaps this article from Calum Steele general secretary of the police federation seems to think Police Scotland is a shambles too:-


The Police Service of Scotland (PSoS) is in such dire financial straits that it is sending officers to charity shops to source equipment that you could pick up for a couple of pounds in most supermarkets. That is but one of the ridiculous yet brutal realities of a lack of funding for what is the first and last emergency service; the only service that’s called when others either can’t be contacted or say no; and the only service that can’t say no.

Officers dealing with a child rightly sought to go some way to protect the child from needless intrusion by seeking the purchase of car sun blinds to help screen them from public view whilst making a necessary journey in a police car. Any one of us who has children know these can readily be bought for a couple of pounds but the officers were sent to scour charity shops to see if they could source them cheaper.

Dogs handlers (those we have left) following trails are being told to stop as they approach the end of their shift (lest they incur overtime) and other dog handlers are simply dispatched to pick up from where they left off.

General and criminal inquiries are passed from officer to officer to officer, grossly diminishing the care for victims and increasing the likelihood of mistakes being made, evidence being lost and greater costs and abstractions should the issue subsequently progress to court.

Rural communities are seeing their police services diminished and access is very much a post code and bank account lottery. Let us not kid on that decisions to send policing responses are firstly judged on need when a budget built on cuts needs to be balanced.

Ranks are being stripped out and responsibilities are being pushed down without any evaluation of the impact of doing so on either the police service itself or the communities it is expected to serve.

Cash is king and woe betide anyone who isn’t playing their part in making cuts. Theorising on paper that the service will be improved but cutting is a fool’s errand and the public is being misled over the policing realities of today. At a time when so much emphasis is being place on the cost of policing, it’s long overdue that we had a real conversation about its value.

The police service and police officers operate in an imperfect world. We see and deal with the consequences of the most depraved aspects of human behaviour as well as the after effects of a nation whose love of alcohol appears to show no limits. Violence, injury, death, devastation and sadness are all part and parcel of the issues facing policing and that’s before you even begin to touch on the preventative agenda that makes a difference in ways almost impossible to measure and the justifiable expectations of the public that the police will be there, visible, to provide reassurance when they demand it.

Imagine therefore a police service that is being strangled of the very capability to do what the public expects and what police officers know needs done, and you are now imagining the PSoS today, here and now.

The PSoS deals with over 10,000 calls each day; nearly four million calls a year. That’s more calls for service than there are children in our schools and patients in our hospitals -combined. A few short weeks ago, during the exceptional good weather, Scotland had 10 murders in a 14 day period. In the same period its call demand far exceeded anything that it had ever experienced before and made the traditional high demand of Hogmanay seem like a quite Sunday morning.

I have heard it said that the pressures on the police budget are no more or no less than anywhere else in the public sector and respectfully suggest that is poppycock. I have no doubt that the hospitals were also busy during the good weather but unlike other services – the police go to the public. I have also yet to hear of a hospital that is expected to treat the dead but police still investigate those no longer able to be questioned about their crimes.

No one really cares if the firefighter coming to put out a fire has a rapport and trust with the person whose house is ablaze but by god they care about knowing and trusting the police officers in their communities – that can only be achieved by being there and not just when something happens. Has anyone ever looked at the mass deployment of police officers to communities AFTER something horrific occurs and wondered why they couldn’t have been there before?

Senior officers, the Scottish Police Authority and Government are happily kidding the public on that everything in the garden is rosy but even the most superficial scratching of the surface reveals a completely different picture. In amongst all the language of “capital – revenue – reform – sustainability” the real impact of what the service is facing is missing. Most member of the public have no interest in language that is designed and intended to obfuscate from the real issues. They care about what it means for them. No one has asked the public if they know what is meant by a sustainable police service. It’s one of those phrases that’s casually thrown about without anyone asking – so what does that mean? – sustainable from whose point of view?

No doubt many of those who will be asked to comment on this piece will trot out lines about difficult decisions and hard conversations but who with? We will hear about generalities and not specifics and this is wrong. Local concerns will get lost and diminished in a world of corporate speak and that suits only the suits.

The Scottish Government consultation on police priorities will not be seen by a huge swathe of our population. Many of those who we police can’t afford to eat, let alone afford the luxury of wi-fi or the time to respond. Who is speaking to them? Who is garnering their views?

I am in no doubt that but for the creation of the Police Service of Scotland, policing would be in an even weaker position than it currently is. That however is not good enough. We should not accept a service that is barely able to cope and already planning to provide less. Telling the public they need different priorities is not the same as dealing with their priorities.

The service has superficially restructured but needs real money to be able to fix the many failures of the past and become one true national police service delivering for all our communities in Scotland. Treating pubic expectation and demand as an inconvenience to a budget balancing exercise (which in any event is an impossible ask) is no way to deliver that. The public deserve better than a police service scrambling about in charity shops and treating victims of crime like unwanted wedding presents to be passed on and on and its long overdue that we acknowledge that and did something about it.

https://www.holyrood.com/articles/comment/scottish-police-federation-says-public-are-being-misled-over-policing-cuts

Shakethedisease

Shaka_Zulu wrote: »

Perhaps this article from Calum Steele general secretary of the police federation seems to think Police Scotland is a shambles too:-

No it doesn't interest me. Compared to other areas of the UK policing numbers are fine and have been kept static where other areas ( see what May is currently under fire for ) have had to deal with huge cuts. And crime levels - which is the point - are at record lows.

The internal politics and wranglings don't interest me. Just the end service given to the public which seems to be holding up very well comparatively with other police forces around the UK. The same is true of the Scottish NHS, which is currently regarded statistically and via patient satisfaction as currently the best NHS service in the UK.

You always ignore these sorts of stats and figures and this bores me rigid when we're debating something. You also seemed totally unaware of both Scottish Conservative and Labour support of centralising the Scottish Police force <---- Newsflash ! When you're trying to use something as a stick to beat the SNP with, make sure all the other Scottish parties didn't vote for it too. It tends to make you look a little bit silly when carping about it.

Get back to me when you have something interesting to say, or when you and all the others here have managed to chase ISTL off by piling on every single post he makes and all the infantile name calling. Sad !

Shakethedisease

No. The electorate is always right. Must stick in your craw a bit that Scottish voters don't vote the way you want them to.. to the extent of accusing the SNP of huckling folks along to the polling stations and 'making' them vote SNP. Desperate, fantasyland stuff which made me laugh. Thank you ! :rotfl:

Shaka_Zulu

Shakethedisease wrote: »

No it doesn't interest me.

Only one thing interest you and your single issue party!

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Newsflash ! When you're trying to use something as a stick to beat the SNP with, make sure all the other Scottish parties didn't vote for it too. It tends to make you look a little bit silly when carping about it.

The big difference of course is the SNP implemented it and made a mess of it eg not even sorting out the VAT. Like most things the SNP touch it all turns to dust at the end of the day.

Your party is destroying our country one little piece at a time.