The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

TrickyTree83

sss555s wrote: »

Why are you getting abusive? and if you don't like people having to reply to you repeating random "fear" quotes then don't keep posting them or better still, leave the thread if you're "fed up replying"

An independent Scotland connected to the EU will be in a far better position than just connected to the UK only. Brexit has had a large affect on my costs and it hasn't even started yet.

My company buys products produced outside of the EU and the EU base is in the Netherlands. My cost has increased because Brexit has trashed the exchange rate and it is very hard to pass on this extra cost in a competitive market. When the UK leaves the EU, my costs will increase more.
Anything you buy from the USA is way more expensive on top of the exchange rate change.
Any currency I have had to get post the Brexit announcement has been a very poor rate.
Insurance has increased.

These are just a few examples of the pain Brexit is bringing to Scots when Scots voted against it.

I for one would far rather be part of a future Scotland being part of the EU who has a better World trading conditions with the main economy's than the UK will ever have. Those pains would be worth it and the UK would be happy to trade with us just as we would be happy to trade with them.

Going to ignore my post refuting your assertion that what I say is lies?

Strange that you should cite currency exchange rates as a problem for you personally.

What would happen if you had a Scottish currency that had to be devalued on purpose for the Scottish government to continue to function under its spending burden and the Scottish economy to remain competitive?

What if you were to use the Euro which remains low to maintain the Germanic economic position without being in control of it?

Worse than using Sterling right now which you complain about?

No sorry. You've not thought any of it through.

I'll refer you back to this post:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=72605240&postcount=11088

Edit: I get fed up because it's the same !!!! lord posting that makes everything go around in circles because in the "debate" one side doesn't have the answers, they're just following in blind faith it seems.

Words like "I believe" are indicative of such behaviour.

Those pains would be worth it and the UK would be happy to trade with us just as we would be happy to trade with them

If there is a bad/no deal with the EU, will your above point continue to be the case if what Scotland is trying to sell into the UK is more expensive than 1) the UK can produce itself, or 2) it can procure from elsewhere in the world?

mayonnaise

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Why should these posters be allowed to post their nonsense without question, Mayo?

Of course one is allowed to question what one perceives as nonsense.
Telling posters to 'jog on' is somewhat different.

IveSeenTheLight

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Right, I'm going to open by telling you to jog on.

I really am fed up to the back teeth with this type of !!!! lord posting now.

Calm down.
If you choose to look at only a portion of the impact, then were tightly going to identify the wider picture and therefore the overall risks.

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

1. I clearly don't dismiss the impact of Brexit on the UK. I'm using the Fraser of Allander institute's analysis of the impact of Brexit on Scotland TO DISCUSS SCOTLAND on a thread about Scotland.

I accept that, but you do dismiss considering the wider impact, which DOES have a bearing on SCOTLAND

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

2. I don't dismiss the trade between the rUK and Scotland either, I constantly cite it because Scotland does far more trade with the rUK than it does with EVERYWHERE ELSE COMBINED.

In the current climate, but we were discussing the extreme hypothetical situation you were proposing.

Again for clarity, in that extreme circumstances, the impact on the UK would result that the long term potential would be preferential to be in a market 8 times larger than rUK

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

3. The types of export? Are you going to say water again? OK, go to Google and have a look for the breakdown of the Scottish trade statistics. Tell me which is the biggest sector by far, it's not Whiskey, it's not water, it's not agriculture either.

Its not about what is the largest sector, but what is important.
I accept that the services industry is larger and could be supplied

Water is one, do you acknowledge that? Its pretty important

How about Energy? I read somewhere that Scotlands renewable energy produces something like 25% of the UK's consumption, that being a country with only 8.3% population, so there's likely continued need for export to rUK

But furthermore, there is dubiety over the figures you state as it is not possible in the current accounts to determine exactly where the flow of money comes from and usually ends up as UK accounts.

As an example.

A container of whisky distilled in Scotland, bottled in Leven by Diageo, driven south and put on a ship at Felixstowe for shipment to Genoa, for example, is counted an English export to Italy.

This is repeated many times over, so much of the quoted figure for exports from Scotland to the rUK is wholly false. This also applies to large chunks of what is shown as English exports, which are actually Scottish exports trans-shipped.

There are many more examples of UK accounting

1. If you run a hotel in Edinburgh and lease a room to someone coming from Liverpool, does that count as a transfer of money from rUK into Scotland?
2. If you run a haulage company in Manchester and buy fuel in Falkirk does that count?
3. If you produce goods in Edinburgh then ship them to France via an English haulage company and through an English port then how does the profit break down?
4. What happens if a company in Dundee create something but the final packaging and shipping to customers happens in England?
5. Say you run a business in Glasgow but the registered office is still your old address in Bristol?

Are you still going to repeat that an iScotland is at risk of independence without actually acknowledging the wider context and why the extreme hypothetical scenario is unlikely?

If so I will keep repeating that in that extreme hypothetical scenario, I'd rather be in a market 8 times larger than the rUK and indeed, the impact to rUK will mean a higher factor than 8 as the UK trade with the EU also evaporates.

TrickyTree83

mayonnaise wrote: »

Of course one is allowed to question what one perceives as nonsense.
Telling posters to 'jog on' is somewhat different.

Nothing wrong with jog on. It's not a pejorative term.

I stand by it, if the posters supporting independence are going to continually ignore the points that are made using evidence, continually misdirect and deflect the conversation then the value of their contributions to the thread and the discussion has disappeared in entirety.

The thread then becomes a vehicle for misinformation and lies for these people to perpetuate in the hope of damaging Scottish peoples lives, since no evidence has arisen to the contrary.

IveSeenTheLight

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Words like "I believe" are indicative of such behaviour.

In this debate board, our posts are always our opinions or beliefs that are posted.
Don't get hung up on the wording just because our opinions / beliefs differ.

IveSeenTheLight

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Nothing wrong with jog on. It's not a pejorative term.

I stand by it, if the posters supporting independence are going to continually ignore the points that are made using evidence, continually misdirect and deflect the conversation then the value of their contributions to the thread and the discussion has disappeared in entirety.

The thread then becomes a vehicle for misinformation and lies for these people to perpetuate in the hope of damaging Scottish peoples lives, since no evidence has arisen to the contrary.

Should we all start posts of differing opinions telling them to jog on?

Your inferring that I am ignoring points, when the truth is I accept the points, apply them to a wider context and it is you that is ignoring that wider context.

You just don't like it as you are called on it each time you try the same old argument and instead of debating that wider context, your preference is to try and narrow the view again to only discussing Scotland.

Well I'm sorry, but the wider context does include Scotland and worthy of discussion

sss555s

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Going to ignore my post refuting your assertion that what I say is lies?

Strange that you should cite currency exchange rates as a problem for you personally.

What would happen if you had a Scottish currency that had to be devalued on purpose for the Scottish government to continue to function under its spending burden and the Scottish economy to remain competitive?

What if you were to use the Euro which remains low to maintain the Germanic economic position without being in control of it?

Worse than using Sterling right now which you complain about?

No sorry. You've not thought any of it through.

I'll refer you back to this post:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=72605240&postcount=11088

Edit: I get fed up because it's the same !!!! lord posting that makes everything go around in circles because in the "debate" one side doesn't have the answers, they're just following in blind faith it seems.

Words like "I believe" are indicative of such behaviour.



If there is a bad/no deal with the EU, will your above point continue to be the case if what Scotland is trying to sell into the UK is more expensive than 1) the UK can produce itself, or 2) it can procure from elsewhere in the world?

Try and understand my post. There is pain either way caused by Brexit but I'd choose the pain of being in the EU. Your "what if" and "what would happen if" questions are again looking at the most pessimistic view. You seem to be 100% pessimistic about Scotland while 100% optimistic about Brexit which deeply tarnishes your image.

I'm not wasting my time arguing with you about lies, I've said my opinion and you can't change that by arguing back and forth.

Thrugelmir

sss555s wrote: »

My cost has increased because Brexit has trashed the exchange rate and it is very hard to pass on this extra cost in a competitive market. When the UK leaves the EU, my costs will increase more.

Brexit didn't trash the exchange rate. Brexit was simply the trigger. As sterling was overvalued. Considered to be for a very long time. Your business model isn't very sound if it depends on a favourable exchange rate. Has been lower than this in the past. Why not source the product in the UK?

How does independence help your business? You are still going to have to face the challenges of a fluctuating exchange rate.

sss555s

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Nothing wrong with jog on.

Maybe from where you come from but in Scotland it is confrontational and offensive.

Anyone with a strong connection with or from Scotland will tell you that.

A_Pict_In_A_Past_Life

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

In this debate board, our posts are always our opinions or beliefs that are posted.
Don't get hung up on the wording just because our opinions / beliefs differ.

Oh my, mair frae the agitator eh?
Says the one getting hung up on wording!
More hypocrisy from you then, like your telling people to discuss topics and not target the man? Like you disagreeing wi' calling posters names ......... but you did and repeatedly too..

I saw a post earlier said something like "as sure as night is day" and right enough, you did.
Face it ISTL.
You don't want debate, you just want to cause disagreement.
Others are right, you are that name you say you willnae use but do.