Renting part furnished

marcarm

Nickshrews wrote: »

Thank you all for your posts. Just want to clarify a few points. Nowhere in our tenancy agreement does it state that we cannot remove the over nor does it state that we must get a qualified electrician to install it. I am not qualified, but I am not installing new wiring, merely plumbing existing wiring in - I have done this many times and am competent. Additionally when we told the letting agents verbally that we would be putting in our oven, we were led to believe that this would be fine, and were certainly not instructed not to do so. Or at any point told it needed to be professionally installed.

In our tenancy agreement it says no BluTack or screws in the wall - so we haven't put a single thing up. We did get clarification from the LL who said it was fine to do so, so long as when we leave the holes are filled and the wall painted (which is no problem)

At no point did I intend to annoy my LL and was actually only trying to be helpful. - believing that it would be no problem to install my own oven.

Probably doesn't say not to remove the roof either but that doesn't mean you can convert the house to a cabriolet.

audigex

Nickshrews wrote: »

Thank you all for your posts. Just want to clarify a few points. Nowhere in our tenancy agreement does it state that we cannot remove the over, nor does it state that we must get a qualified electrician to install it.

No, but equally it does state that it's a part furnished property and there are some assumptions that go along with that

Nickshrews wrote: »

I am not qualified, but I am not installing new wiring, merely plumbing existing wiring in - I have done this many times and am competent. Additionally when we told the letting agents verbally that we would be putting in our oven, we were led to believe that this would be fine, and were certainly not instructed not to do so. Or at any point told it needed to be professionally installed.

Qualifications prove competency. Without qualifications, how does anyone other than you know you're competent? All the landlady knows is that somebody with no qualification or insurance to fit an oven, has been messing with the wiring in her property. Would you hire a bloke out of the pub to fix your wiring in your home? I doubt it, so you can hardly object to the landlady having reservations over it. There's a very good reason that the landlady is required to get a proper electrician to do electrical work - she's responsible for the state and safety of the property, and you modifying things undermines that.

Nickshrews wrote: »

In our tenancy agreement it says no BluTack or screws in the wall - so we haven't put a single thing up. We did get clarification from the LL who said it was fine to do so, so long as when we leave the holes are filled and the wall painted (which is no problem)

At no point did I intend to annoy my LL and was actually only trying to be helpful. - believing that it would be no problem to install my own oven.

I don't actually believe you were being deliberately awkward or unreasonable, just that you're perhaps not understanding why most people would consider what you did to be unreasonable.

Storing an oven potentially costs money, and if it takes any damage that's an additional cost the landlady doesn't expect to have. Equally getting the wiring checked after you leave, making sure the insurance is okay with things, and just the extra hassle, is all things that she shouldn't be having to deal with.

This is the nature of a part furnished flat, and I think that's a distinction you need to take on board: an unfurnished flat may be better suited to your needs next time you move.

Guest101

The tenant rents the property and everything in it.


the tenant can do whatever they like.


When the tenancy ends, the tenant must return the property and anything in it to the LL.


It really is as simple as that.

caronoel

Guest101 wrote: »

The tenant rents the property and everything in it.


the tenant can do whatever they like.


When the tenancy ends, the tenant must return the property and anything in it to the LL.


It really is as simple as that.

Nope

The tenant needs to act in a tenant-like manner, it is the legal responsibility of being a tenant.

I would posit that ripping out an electric fitting, through a DIY job by a unqualified amateur is certainly not part of acting in a tenant like manner.

What if the property burns down because you haven't done the wiring correctly?

As for making good the damage you have caused to date and storing the LL's existing property in a dry and secure place, well that is a whole other bunch of issues.

To the OP's original question on whether they are being unreasonable: in a word - Yes.

Nickshrews

caronoel wrote: »

Nope

The tenant needs to act in a tenant-like manner, it is the legal responsibility of being a tenant.

I would posit that ripping out an electric fitting, through a DIY job by a unqualified amateur is certainly not part of acting in a tenant like manner.

What if the property burns down because you haven't done the wiring correctly?

As for making good the damage you have caused to date and storing the LL's existing property in a dry and secure place, well that is a whole other bunch of issues.

To the OP's original question on whether they are being unreasonable: in a word - Yes.

I didn't rip out any electrical fitting. I unscrewed the facia fitting, unscrewed 3 wires and screwed three other wires in - all colour corresponding. - The same as changing a plug or fuse - I'm guessing its reasonable to do that without a qualified sparky. Additionally no damage has occurred.

My original question was am i being unreasonable, It would seem that some think I am being. - Which is an answer to my question.

I have contacted my LL and apologised, stated that had the letting agents said anything when I raised the original point, I wouldn't have gone ahead and done anything (just as we did not go ahead and start putting nails in the walls without explicit permission).

Again I was only offering the option of her having it back - Not saying she HAD to have it back. I don't think offering her the option of having it back is unreasonable. - especially as I was saying I could deliver it back rather than them having to collect it.

Ultimately I suppose I didn't have to say anything to anyone, Just stored it then put it back when the tenancy ended. But thought it was reasonable to do so.

Guest101

caronoel wrote: »

Nope

The tenant needs to act in a tenant-like manner, it is the legal responsibility of being a tenant.

I would posit that ripping out an electric fitting, through a DIY job by a unqualified amateur is certainly not part of acting in a tenant like manner.

What if the property burns down because you haven't done the wiring correctly?

As for making good the damage you have caused to date and storing the LL's existing property in a dry and secure place, well that is a whole other bunch of issues.

To the OP's original question on whether they are being unreasonable: in a word - Yes.

Oh my....


'ripping out'


'burnt down'


Someone's imagination has run wild

HappyMJ

caronoel wrote: »

Nope

The tenant needs to act in a tenant-like manner, it is the legal responsibility of being a tenant.

I would posit that ripping out an electric fitting, through a DIY job by a unqualified amateur is certainly not part of acting in a tenant like manner.

What if the property burns down because you haven't done the wiring correctly?

As for making good the damage you have caused to date and storing the LL's existing property in a dry and secure place, well that is a whole other bunch of issues.

To the OP's original question on whether they are being unreasonable: in a word - Yes.

I would hope the trip switch would trip if the wiring was done incorrectly.

If a tenant does something and the house burns down then although it's the tenants fault the insurance would cover it.

You don't need to be qualified to carry out any non-notifiable electrical work you only need to be competent. The OP sounds competent enough. It's up to the OP to declare themselves competent or not.

I thought this thread was about the storage of the oven rather than the issue of the OP connecting a cooker.

audigex

Guest101 wrote: »

The tenant rents the property and everything in it.


the tenant can do whatever they like.


When the tenancy ends, the tenant must return the property and anything in it to the LL.


It really is as simple as that.

Not quite. While that's true to some extent (not "The tenant can do whatever they like"), it's a little different when talking about **installed** items, as opposed to furniture.

You are entitled to move things around or store them safely etc as you mention - but not to start touching electricals or installed items. There's a pretty significant difference there between moving a few cushions into the cupboard, and changing the wiring of the house.

It's not up to you to decide if you're competent enough to perform electrical work (no matter how basic) on somebody else's property.

G_M

Nickshrews wrote: »

I didn't rip out any electrical fitting. I unscrewed the facia fitting, unscrewed 3 wires and screwed three other wires in - all colour corresponding. - The same as changing a plug or fuse

But the ladlady does not know that.

So

a) she is rightly concerned that there may now be a fire risk. Her insurance might be at risk. And further, she could be accused of manslaughter if you were to be killed in a fire (landlords have a legal duty to ensure all electrics are safe).

Yes, extreme example. But it's a serious point.

b) when you leave she will hve to re-install the oven, and, again to comply with her legal obligations, will need to use a competant person, which may cost her

Noting in tenancy agreement about the oven or getting anything professionally installed.

because it is assumed the oven which is wired in will stay wired in. As will the light fittings, boiler, electric shower etc etc

PasturesNew

This comes down to some simple facts/rules about renting:

1] Whatever an agent, or anybody, says is meaningless unless it's in writing.
2] Stuff that's already in the home you're renting is pretty much fixed and you either take it as it is, or walk away. Also see [1]

It is unusual, probably, for people with some stuff (especially ovens) to be lugging them around rentals and into part-furnished. Most people with an oven would usually just rent unfurnished.

You're pretty much now between a rock and a hard place. The landlord probably didn't even want to buy/fit the oven, but the agent told them to. The landlord probably doesn't have space, or a vehicle, or a desire, to store household items at their main home.

This, generally, from a landlord's viewpoint, is not how things are supposed to work out at all.

All you need to do is to store the oven as well as you can - a pallet can be free or only cost you £2 within a few miles of your house. Then you could speak to some storage people to find out their suggestions of the best way to store it so it doesn't get damp. Then at the end of the tenancy, get a qualified electrician to refit it, keep a copy of the paperwork and pass the originals to the agent/landlord.

As it is ... you're now really in a bit of a mess - and one where you can't "win".