Budgeting for a boiler replacement

CashStrapped

OK, funnily enough, you have the same/similar boiler as me!

The old spacesaver is quite inefficient, but usually, reliable as hell. Based on the boiler age/model I assume you have a gravity fed system with a hot water tank, and two cold water feeder tanks in the loft. You will normally get good hot water pressure with this system and two or more people can run a hot tap without too much of a drop in pressure.

The extra expense you have quoted maybe to do with the fact that your system would need to be completely reconfigured (as would mine).

There are three options available to you.

1. Keep your existing system but just replace the boiler. You can get A rated "heat only" (or traditional) condensing boiler (just as efficient as an A rate combi boiler). They only cost in the region £600- £1000. However you will have to update your current system to be fully pumped rather than being gravity fed as well as having all the controls you would expect on a modern system. This will incur further costs, but this is the cheapest option which will still result in a much more efficient system. If you are happy with the tanks in the loft and a hot water tank. This is a very attractive option.

2. Replace your current boiler with a system boiler. This removes the expansion tanks from the loft and they are housed in mini expansion tanks in the boiler itself. The boiler is a sealed system and fully pumped. This means you have mains pressure hot water, which means a fantastic power shower! There is still a hot water tank but these are usually extremely well insulated.

3. Combi boiler. This has become the defacto choice for many in recent years. Not always for the correct reasons however. It removes the need for any tanks in the loft, or a hot water tank. So it is very good for houses where space is limited or extra space is required. The trade off; a combi boiler heats water instantly as it flows through the boiler. Therefore there is a restriction on how much hot water it can supply at any one time and how fast it can provide it. This is also dependant on how good your dynamic mains pressure is. This should be measured by a heating engineer prior to even considering a combi. The result of this means that if you have two people using hot water at the same time, you may get no more than a dribble. Even without two taps running, doing something like filling a full bath may take a lot longer than you are used to. A storage combi (as I mentioned earlier) can alleviate this issue for short periods.

It is myth that a combi set-up is any more efficient than a system boiler or heat only boiler set up.

Furthermore a combi boiler is a far more complicated beast than a heat only boiler or even a system boiler. It is compressing lots of things into one machine. This can result in less reliability.

Ultimately the choice is yours and it comes down to your priorities. Is it saving space? Or a system set-up that is still modern and efficient but with unaffected hot water pressure.

Personally:

I have the same boiler as you. I have been looking at the options for a few years as I am considering a major renovation that would require me to replace my trusty beast of a glowworm and move my hot water tank. Due to my extensive rennovation, I am currently opting for a system boiler and hot water tank. This is a modern and very efficient set-up which can cope with multiple bathrooms in use at the same time.

If I was not renovating and moving everything anyway, I would opt for a new heat only boiler and minor system reconfiguration.

In my experience, every house I have been in with a combi boiler has had terrible hot water pressure, patchy reliability and more difficult to get a well balanced and consistent set-up. You also have to wait for a combi boiler to cycle up and heat the water. This can result in wasted water as it can take a while for hot water to finally emit from the tap.

Hope my...erm....unexpectedly long post helps!

csgohan4

Well explained Cashstrapped, rather than be a keyboard warrior, you gave a logical reasoning

lifeandsoul

cashstrapped - many thanks for taking the time to take me through this. It will help immensely when I ask for people to come in and quote.


Sounds like the £5.5k is more than enough.


Thank you to everyone else who contributed as well.

macman

lifeandsoul wrote: »

cashstrapped - many thanks for taking the time to take me through this. It will help immensely when I ask for people to come in and quote.


Sounds like the £5.5k is more than enough.


Thank you to everyone else who contributed as well.

Unless you ask BG to quote of course...

CashStrapped

lifeandsoul wrote: »

Sounds like the £5.5k is more than enough.
Thank you to everyone else who contributed as well.

As a final point. The heat only/traditional boiler should come in substantially cheaper than the other two options and much les than 5.5K.

Another thing to bear in mind is the figures.

If you are doing this for efficiency/moneysaving consider this.

A modern boiler at peak efficiency may save you £300 a year off your bill compared to your current inefficient boiler.

The cost of an installation and system reconfiguration may cost from £3000 to £5000.

So with the efficieny saving it may take you 10 - 15 years to make the money back.

To make it worse, modern boilers (especially combis) are much more complicated (pcb and digital controls) than the Glowworm Spacesaver (which are pretty much mechanical in operation).

You will be lucky if a combi boiler will actually last 10-15 years. So, by the time you made the efficiency savings, you have to shell out for a new boiler again!

Again, this makes the cheapest option (the heat only boiler) more attractive, depending on the quotes you get for it.

If you are doing this to cut your carbon emmisions (money no object) then you may not want to consider this argument. But it is somthing to consider.

Oh! You may also want to salvage parts from your old Gloworm to sell on ebay! They can go for a pretty penny as they are not available anymore. Especially the Mclaren Valve!

....I'll shut up now!

csgohan4

CashStrapped wrote: »

As a final point. The heat only/traditional boiler should come in substantially cheaper than the other two options and much les than 5.5K.

Another thing to bear in mind is the figures.

If you are doing this for efficiency/moneysaving consider this.

A modern boiler at peak efficiency may save you £300 a year off your bill compared to your current inefficient boiler.

The cost of an installation and system reconfiguration may cost from £3000 to £5000.

So with the efficieny saving it may take you 10 - 15 years to make the money back.

To make it worse, modern boilers (especially combis) are much more complicated (pcb and digital controls) than the Glowworm Spacesaver (which are pretty much mechanical in operation).

You will be lucky if a combi boiler will actually last 10-15 years. So, by the time you made the efficiency savings, you have to shell out for a new boiler again!

Again, this makes the cheapest option (the heat only boiler) more attractive, depending on the quotes you get for it.

If you are doing this to cut your carbon emmisions (money no object) then you may not want to consider this argument. But it is somthing to consider.

Oh! You may also want to salvage parts from your old Gloworm to sell on ebay! They can go for a pretty penny as they are not available anymore. Especially the Mclaren Valve!

....I'll shut up now!

Condensing boiler boiler vs System boiler, in terms of cost and efficiency which would you recommend?

CashStrapped

This is where people get confused.

All boilers these days have to be condensing boilers.

So combi, system and heat only (traditional boilers) are all condensing.

You can get A rated boilers across all these types.

Which one you get depends on what I said above. So it comes down to your budget, personal circumstances and property type. I cannot recommend any particular one.

A good heating engineer should go through all the options like I have done rather that just deciding for you or giving one choice/suggestion.

A bad one will do what is quickest/easiest/most profitable for them.

lifeandsoul

So assuming I'm going for the heat only option. Is this best handled by a local firm or an individual. I definitely won't go for BG, but would a small local organization be better than an individual because of the range of skills needed. This assumes both the local firm and the individuals have both come with glowing recommendations and prices are broadly the same.

teddysmum

The type of system depends on the lifestyle of the people living at the property.


We had a boiler with storage tank for years, but now (just an older couple as the children have left home)have a combi and find it ideal. No more planning usage of hot water or having to wait for it to reach a suitable temperature for unexpected uses (eg mucky dog needs instant bath).


My hairdresser, her husband and two adult sons recently moved to an older house, from one with a combi and she can'twait to instal a combi again,as everyone wants the bathroom at the same time, but the first user causes the stored hot water to cool down,so the next in line has to wait..


However,her system would suit a family where all do not need to use the facilities at the same time of day.

CashStrapped

lifeandsoul wrote: »

So assuming I'm going for the heat only option. Is this best handled by a local firm or an individual.......

Ask friends and family for local recommendations. A local gas safe registered engineer. Get multiple quotes. Avoid big nationwide firms.

Re teddysmum above

I agree to a certain extent with your point.

However people often compare a new boiler (of whatever type) with modern controls to an old system with limited controls and an old and/or poorly sized tank. They will always automotically think it is best thing ever and trumps any alternative.

In reality, they just have a modern system with modern controls.

What I am saying is, they do not know any differant.

It is like having an old Ford car from the 1970s and then buying a modern Citroen. Then making the assumption that all Fords are very uneconomical.

If you ensure that you update an existing sytem, with modern controls, a modern boiler and ensure the tank is correctly sized for the occupents (if it is not already) it should be just as convenient to use as a combi. For a fraction of the cost too.