Claim form from CCBC - Civil Enforcement

Redx

as stated in the other thread, those details of the claim will either come later or be asked for later, via the court

its irrelevant if the car park was full or empty , its private property and so you must comply with the parking rules (parking restrictions) or leave promptly

a lesson for the future, if you are parking or stopping , do so on the public road as you were taught in your driving lessons and test, in places where no restrictions apply

you were not taught to park on private property

Coupon-mad

Would it be a good idea to write a letter directly to CEL asking for information?
Such as:

...Photos evidence of myself entering and leaving the car park
And damages exactly as whilst i waited the car park it wasnt full

Why would the above NOT be a good idea?

Sweeterman

In the letter I appealed the charge at first back in 2013. I already said 'I was waiting and didnt leave the car' so I stuffed myself. They have copied the letter and attached it to a previous warning letter. So really I don't have any defence

Redx

so you dont have a defence such as

no locus standii (no contract with the landowner) ?
poor signage not compliant with the BPA CoP ?
have they adhered to the Grace Periods as detailed by the BPA CoP ?
not a GPEOL ?
any other legal arguments

the only failure I can see is admitting you were the driver means you cannot hide behind POFA2012 and its compliance rules for the NTK etc

you are assuming that you have no defence due to a guilt complex

so let us assume you have eaten a mars bar in asda, failed to pay for it, broken the contract you entered into after picking it up, are we saying that the punishment of removal of your hand at the wrist is valid just because some sign says so ?

does the manager have the right to be judge and jury and carry out this severe punishment due to a piece of A4 stuck on the entrance/exit door ?

in law , they have to prove their claim beyond 50% probability that a contract was formed and you agreed to pay the penalty clauses if you fail to comply with the rules

they bring the claim, so they have to convince the court that they have the legal right to do so, that the signage was clear and met the BPA CoP , that the punishment is not excessive

its clear to me that they failed to stick to the BPA CoP of grace periods, of say up to 10 minutes to comply with the signage or leave, plus the grace period to leave the car park as well (currently greater than 11 minutes)

Sweeterman

Thanks Redx for shedding more light , that made sense to me.

I don't remember any signage saying about grace periods whatsoever. They also state that the time the car was in there was 17 minutes and without evidence Im not sure that was the time.
As the land is now a site for housing development could I bring up the point of CEL actually having a valid contract with the site owner to work as they do?

Also as its from the bulk centre as an online appeal, if my defense is submitted and accepted could the case physically go to court? If that's the case I have a lot to learn about as I have hardly a clue as people can tell.

Thanks

Redx

yes you use ANY and ALL legal points in your defence, but your initial defence is a skeleton defence, not a full blown one, a simple precis of the legal points you intend to use in your later, detailed, full defence

I never claimed that the signage would have grace periods, they dont, I said the BPA CoP , so you really will need to learn the jargon

yes you will physically attend court if it gets that far, thats the final hurdle, so if it doesnt get settled before the final hurdle then its county court for you

if they used ANPR cameras the cameras recorded time on site , not time "parked" , because they record entry and exit times, not parking times , this is all part of your defence and therefore comes under the BPA CoP grace periods , look them up , clause #13

so yes you need to do the research and learn, but I know many young people like yourself and they are either in school , college or maybe only just finished so are more able to do this work with the internet etc than say I was years ago

my teenage grandkids seem to be able to do this research for school and college, but I dont see any evidence of you doing this research because of the basic mistakes you have made so far in this thread (I tell it how it is)

ie:- wrong source for the paperwork
mistaking signage with BPA CoP for grace periods
incorrect assumptions
trying to jump the 3rd hurdle before getting over the 1st hurdle

I hope you prove me wrong, but so far I dont see a glimmer of hope as you seem to treat us like a teacher or lecturer, somebody who knows it and will spell it out - but at some point YOU must put the hours in

Sweeterman

I don't have any hope either , I have no idea where to start I've never had to do anything like this. Yes i am reading through the bpa cop and there are points in which I think I could note down to be investigated.. But I don't think it looks good if my skeleton defence is just full of numbers of points in the cop.

And yes it may seem as I'm asking for too much help but I'm useless in these things!

Let's be honest it's just easier to pay the £255 but I'm not planning of just giving it to these idiots.

The_Deep

Let's be honest it's just easier to pay the £255

It is indeed, but think of the satisfaction you will get from learning a new skill and beating the merde out of them in court. In any case, County Court is no big deal, an interesting day out, and not a bit like that shouty old drama queen, Rob Rhinder.

This company will take you to the wire. They are total bar stewards. They rarely turn up in court, but may try to trick you into thinking that are dropping the case. Turn up whatever they say.


Lots of stuff in the parking Pranksters blog about their little tricks.

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/independent-parking-committee-ltd.html

If you do your homework you can give them a good kicking. Go for it.

Coupon-mad

Sweeterman wrote: »

I don't have any hope either , I have no idea where to start I've never had to do anything like this. Yes i am reading through the bpa cop and there are points in which I think I could note down to be investigated.. But I don't think it looks good if my skeleton defence is just full of numbers of points in the cop.

And yes it may seem as I'm asking for too much help but I'm useless in these things!

Let's be honest it's just easier to pay the £255 but I'm not planning of just giving it to these idiots.

There are examples of recent defences in the NEWBIES thread, albeit pepipoo.com is down this weekend so you may have to wait till they've fixed that to see the recent defences from there which I linked.

You will get an idea where to start, trust me, the penny will drop.

You are right it's not about the CoP alone.

Sweeterman

Morning all

I found a copy of the letter I sent CEL after receiving the pcn back in 2013. Unfortunately I wrote at the end that ' I appreciate your terms and conditions but didn't read them'.

So have I stuffed myself in terms of having a point in defence for poorly displayed signage?

Also if anyone knows why once you logged into MoneyClaim with the court claim details, when trying to have a look again it says the information is wrong?

Thanks