If we vote for Brexit what happens

Kohoutek

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Are you deliberately trying to provoke disagreement and/or argument?

I'm trying to provoke debate; it's a debating board.

CLAPTON

Kohoutek wrote: »

Yes - but those are aims. Presumably you understand that implementing aims as simplistic and broad as those is impossible in the real world ?

actually most countries of the world have a system whereby their own parliament decide their laws : EU is the except and not the rule.
In fact many countries suffered a considerable number of deaths fighting for that cause.

No, especially given you were completely unable to provide a single example of a country / bloc more orientated to free trade than the EU. Clearly your hatred of the EU is blinding you to reality.

I've already asked you what you mean by free trade in the context of the EU and the rest of the world.

Thrugelmir

Kohoutek wrote: »

Yes - but those are aims. Presumably you understand that implementing aims as simplistic and broad as those is impossible in the real world ?

And the EU imposing their vision of more integration, more solidarity with migrants, more freedom of movement and more integration of economic policies and fiscal policies. On many people who don't want it.

BobQ

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Also today, Germany and Lithuania have been talking about a "European Defense Union".
https://www.neweurope.eu/article/germany-says-times-european-defense-union/

Is NATO not good enough for Europe any more?

This is more about money than anything else. Individual nations are not spending enough on defence and the smaller nations would rather focus the momey they have on doing some things well and not doing other things at all in return for reliance on other nations providing guarantees of support

BobQ

nordicsam wrote: »

What a depressing thread. I find it difficult to understand how educated people can delude themselves into believing that leaving the EU will be a good thing, and that we don't need access to the single market. It's as though facts don't matter anymore. I hope the UK remains part of the EEU, but that seems increasingly unlikely.

I feel pretty screwed over by the baby boomers / Gen X.

I voted Remain and would do so again given the opportunity. But the fact is we have as a nation voted for Brexit and that is what will happen. If it works out well, you will get over it. If it does not you will know who to blame.

Did you actually vote to Remain?

BobQ

Cardew wrote: »

Given the above is substantially correct, what can GB do if the EU play 'hard ball' after E50 is triggered. Say, hypothetically, the EU impose a huge levy for imports into the EU, what can we do? refuse to leave the EU;)

I am aware that GB's retaliation will hurt some EU countries but they can 'spread the pain' if it means other countries won't follow GB's path.

This is a matter of strategy. If we want a close relationship with the EU we will probably be able to negotiate something of that kind. But if we just want to have free trade without other commitments we will not get it. If we do not want this, or cannot get it, we will have to deal with the situation and accept the consequences (for good or ill).

What would you have us do?

nordicsam

CLAPTON wrote: »

Clearly, if you find it difficult to understand something, then maybe you should study the subject matter with more diligence. We are here to help if you want to ask sensible questions.

I'm sorry if your parents/ grandparents are unpleasant people: you have my sympathy but you will find common ground with toxic toastie.

I understand the Brexiteers' argument for leaving the EU (if you can even call it that), but I don't understand how that argument has gained traction with so many people. I have not seen one rational case for leaving the EU, it is all hyperbole and implausible speculation.

I truly want to understand why people think we can retain full access to the single market without accepting free movement of people, or why leaving the single market altogether is a good thing? Please, tell me.

BobQ wrote: »

I voted Remain and would do so again given the opportunity. But the fact is we have as a nation voted for Brexit and that is what will happen. If it works out well, you will get over it. If it does not you will know who to blame.

Did you actually vote to Remain?

Yes I did vote Remain. I meant to say I hope we stay in the EEA by the way, that was a typo - I realise we can't stay in the EU (unless a pro-EU party wins a general election).

CLAPTON

nordicsam wrote: »

I understand the Brexiteers' argument for leaving the EU (if you can even call it that), but I don't understand how that argument has gained traction with so many people. I have not seen one rational case for leaving the EU, it is all hyperbole and implausible speculation.

why do you consider it implausible for a sovereign state to determine its own sales tax on tampons (and of course on all other products and services) : is there no other country in the world that can do that?

why do you reject free trade with all the nations of the world in favour of EU protectionism that has doen huge harm over the last 40 years?

I truly want to understand why people think we can retain full access to the single market without accepting free movement of people, or why leaving the single market altogether is a good thing? Please, tell me.

the connection between free trade and heavily restricted movement of some white, christian european citizens is a totally artifical construct : it has absolutely nothing to do with making people richer and everything to do with politics.
You seem to favour protectionism rather than free trade : how do you justify this?

Kohoutek

CLAPTON wrote: »

why do you consider it implausible for a sovereign state to determine its own sales tax on tampons (and of course on all other products and services) : is there no other country in the world that can do that?

why do you reject free trade with all the nations of the world in favour of EU protectionism that has doen huge harm over the last 40 years?



the connection between free trade and heavily restricted movement of some white, christian european citizens is a totally artifical construct : it has absolutely nothing to do with making people richer and everything to do with politics.
You seem to favour protectionism rather than free trade : how do you justify this?

Protectionist is a relative term - what countries / blocs are less protectionist than the EU?

Crashy_Time

Riggyman wrote: »

My god, that's where all of us with mortgages have been going wrong all these years!
Better spread the word.
Oh no, I bought my car with a low interest personal loan too, best sell it, eliminate that debt and my ability to go to work!

The word is spreading, don`t worry. If you bought 15 or 20 years ago and didn`t MEW, or take loans for things you can buy cash, like cars :rotfl: then you should be okay, it is recent bubble price buyers and those who think the gains are "locked in" that will be in trouble.