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If we vote for Brexit what happens
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Do you think the women politicians feel they need to be more aggressive and shouty than the men?
Possibly but but it may simply be that women multi-task more effectively so talking over each other is perhaps less of an issue for them, but more of an issue for the men watching!Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.0 -
I rest my case
A case of not answering because you would demonstrate you have no evidence to justify it.Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.0 -
So you think we need to proceed on the basis of blind faith?
Control yes, but there will still be the same numbers and types of job that are vacant and that need filling. Surely this means that we just see an increase in non-EU immigration. Points based systems are fine but they collapse the first time we need some unskilled fruit pickers. Of course we could just stop growing fruit.
So we have the same unskilled workers but instead they come from English speaking nations? You seem to be assuming all migrants will settle rather than work for a year and go home.
So what does the bold text mean? Which people will meet your test of cultural background?
This would be a policy that says only graduates from a good commonwealth university can pick our fruit? Obviously not but what is your solution (policy) for temporary farm workers?
What will drive the need for immigration is the number of jobs we cannot fill. This policy has disaster written all over it, however well intentioned this policy is. The fact is some industries rely on skills we seem to have decided that it is beneath our dignity to do or we cannot be bothered to train people to do. A policy will not solve that.
All that happens in Aus is that highly marginally skilled workers get the points to get in. Labourers are often on the list of people needed and once you're in you're likely to remain if that's what you want.
This 'points based system' doesn't really do anything except create a bunch of hoops for people to jump through while giving unscrupulous employers another means for exploiting poorly paid migrant workers.0 -
So you think we need to proceed on the basis of blind faith?
Sorry no, I said there is no guarantee, any reasonable person will agree there is no guarantee. I do believe it will come down though, I work in a firm that deals in logistics and the primary language in our warehouse is Polish. This creates problems for those of us who don't when we struggle to communicate with our colleagues and things go wrong and cost us money.Control yes, but there will still be the same numbers and types of job that are vacant and that need filling. Surely this means that we just see an increase in non-EU immigration. Points based systems are fine but they collapse the first time we need some unskilled fruit pickers. Of course we could just stop growing fruit.
Of course there will still be the same number of vacant positions that need to be filled. Points based systems absolutely do not collapse the first time unskilled fruit pickers are required. We had a workable system before the EU where work permits would be issued for the period required. That's what happens when you have a business as a sponsor. Business needs temporary workers, business asks EU recruitment firm to source workers and business will sponsor their work permit application. Government sees work permit application for fruit picking and grants temporary work permits. Simple really, there's no need to over complicate these issues.So we have the same unskilled workers but instead they come from English speaking nations? You seem to be assuming all migrants will settle rather than work for a year and go home.
The figure of net migration is based on those who settle, that is stay for 12 months or more. Those workers who leave prior to that time are not counted in the net migration figures, at least that was the explanation given for the discrepancy between NINO numbers and government net migration figures.So what does the bold text mean? Which people will meet your test of cultural background?
Well I have some quite extensive personal experience on this issue. My wife is a non-EU national, she had to go through a visa process that cost us in excess of £10,000. She had to take English language tests on her reading, writing, speaking and listening and had to attain a certain level within those tests to pass the criteria. She also had to take a "Life in the UK" test, which asked questions on the culture and history of the UK. Some of the answers even I didn't know, such as "What type of tree did King Charles II hide in to escape the roundheads?". Now I don't know about you but that seems like a really difficult question to ask an immigrant to ascertain their knowledge of our way of life and history. Surely "Who were the roundheads?" would have been a better question.This would be a policy that says only graduates from a good commonwealth university can pick our fruit? Obviously not but what is your solution (policy) for temporary farm workers
I'll refer you to my previous comment about how it used to work with temporary work permits.What will drive the need for immigration is the number of jobs we cannot fill. This policy has disaster written all over it, however well intentioned this policy is. The fact is some industries rely on skills we seem to have decided that it is beneath our dignity to do or we cannot be bothered to train people to do. A policy will not solve that.
Absolutely not, no one is saying we cannot import unskilled workers, it's happened throughout history. But they have not been given - and for me this is the key part especially given my personal experience of the bu**sh*t they make you go through from outside the EU - the right to reside!0 -
TrickyTree83 wrote: »Points based systems absolutely do not collapse the first time unskilled fruit pickers are required. We had a workable system before the EU where work permits would be issued for the period required. That's what happens when you have a business as a sponsor. Business needs temporary workers, business asks EU recruitment firm to source workers and business will sponsor their work permit application. Government sees work permit application for fruit picking and grants temporary work permits. Simple really, there's no need to over complicate these issues.
Except of course that what you are suggesting is by definition overcomplicating this issue.
Fact 1 - EU migrants, in the numbers we've had and in the mix of occupations we've had, have been net financial contributors to the UK.
Fact 2 - EU migrants have a lower unemployment rate than the UK native born so clearly the free market is working well at attracting the right people to fill the job vacancies.
Fact 3 - Non-EU migrants, the ones we can pick and choose via a points based system that is already in place, are not net contributors to the UK finances. And they have a higher unemployment rate than the native born. Because as it happens we're spectacularly bad at picking and choosing.
Fact 4- You want to introduce more cost, paperwork, bureaucracy, etc, into the system - raising costs for employers and therefore costs for consumers - when it is demonstrably the case that the system we have now for EU workers functions better than the system we have in place now for non-EU workers.
Simple really.... There's no need to overcomplicate these issues.
EU migration ain't broke. So don't try to 'fix' it.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
Do you think the women politicians feel they need to be more aggressive and shouty than the men?
I do think that – and I find it really annoying. What I like to see most is people talking one on one, with each person being able to expand on their ideas. I find the fashion for free for alls, with people rudely interrupting each other, really off-putting and uninformative. I tend not to watch them because I don't learn anything from them and just get irked at how bad mannered people are. I feel the same about interviewers who rudely and constantly interrupt someone they are meant to be interviewing because they don't like what they are saying. :cool:0 -
RE. The ITV debate, I thought the Remain triumvirate were a bit shouty and incoherent, whereas Leave were calm and reasonable.
Remain seem panicked.“Britain- A friend to all, beholden to none”. 🇬🇧0
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