If we vote for Brexit what happens

A_Medium_Size_Jock

StevieJ wrote: »

Not sure what you mean? those are not my words.

I did not say that YOU said them although you did post the link, did you not?
I asked a question relating to your linked article:

Are you suggesting that discrimination by allowing free movement of European citizens only is acceptable?
That applying the same rules regardless of origin are not?

Herzlos

mrginge wrote: »

is it just British widget manufacturers that have to comply with this EU standard?

No it isn't is it.

It all manufacturers. UK, EU, RoW. Everyone is in the same boat if they want to sell into the EU.

so what if the EU set a new or different standard and so what if it makes the manufacturing more expensive. That's the cost that EU consumers bear, regardless of where in the world the manufacture takes place.

Exactly. However, when we were in the EU, we had some say in shaping those standards. Now, we just have to do what we're told or not sell into the EU.

TrickyTree83

Herzlos wrote: »

Exactly. However, when we were in the EU, we had some say in shaping those standards. Now, we just have to do what we're told or not sell into the EU.

So... just to be clear...

Some say/can voice an opinion and have it heard + complete servitude to the rules for all UK business to whatever is decided at EU level.

No say/opinion falls on deaf ears + no servitude at all, only UK businesses who export to the market must comply with what is decided. Which is much less than half of all exports. Happy days no?

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Herzlos wrote: »

Exactly. However, when we were in the EU, we had some say in shaping those standards. Now, we just have to do what we're told or not sell into the EU.

Like the rest of the world then?
That incidentally already sells many, many different types of widgets to the EU.

Herzlos

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

So... just to be clear...

Some say/can voice an opinion and have it heard + complete servitude to the rules for all UK business to whatever is decided at EU level.

No say/opinion falls on deaf ears + no servitude at all, only UK businesses who export to the market must comply with what is decided. Which is much less than half of all exports. Happy days no?

Only no "servitude" if you don't value the regulations. So that's if none of your widgets are bought by anyone that sells anything to the EU*, and your customers don't mind if you make non-compliant stuff.
Otherwise, you're still going to have to comply with the standards set by the EU.

Then there's stuff like multinationals that have purchasing requirements. Those office chairs you're selling to a call centre in Manchester might still need to be EU compliant if the company that owns the centre is EU owned.

In reality, it's probably easier for most companies to just continue to produce EU standard stuff, apart from the tiny niche manufacturers and service providers.

*Say for instance you make some car component and your customer is in Dehli or Coventry, but they then sell their components to someone who eventually sells or plans to sell a product to the EU. You're still going to have to satisfy the EU reg even if you're 11 levels of indirection away from the EU. Lots of businesses that "don't sell to the EU" will still need to comply with EU standards.

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Like the rest of the world then?

Yup. We've given up an enhanced position with a seat at the table, to now interact with the EU like everyone else. We'll get by, but we've just given away a significant advantage.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Herzlos wrote: »

Yup. We've given up an enhanced position with a seat at the table, to now interact with the EU like everyone else. We'll get by, but we've just given away a significant advantage.

Evidence please?
Of that highlighted above in red.
Unless of course you have some insider knowledge that nobody else has - and since there has been no agreement yet?
I would love to know how it is that you can see two years or further into the future?

Herzlos

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Evidence please?
Of that highlighted above in red.
Unless of course you have some insider knowledge that nobody else has - and since there has been no agreement yet?
I would love to know how it is that you can see two years or further into the future?

Didn't we just trigger Article 50 to leave the EU?

Do you really think we'll still have MEPs or any say in how the EU runs from the outside? None of the rest of the world does, why would we be any different?

TrickyTree83

Herzlos wrote: »

Only no "servitude" if you don't value the regulations. So that's if none of your widgets are bought by anyone that sells anything to the EU*, and your customers don't mind if you make non-compliant stuff.
Otherwise, you're still going to have to comply with the standards set by the EU.

Then there's stuff like multinationals that have purchasing requirements. Those office chairs you're selling to a call centre in Manchester might still need to be EU compliant if the company that owns the centre is EU owned.

In reality, it's probably easier for most companies to just continue to produce EU standard stuff, apart from the tiny niche manufacturers and service providers.

*Say for instance you make some car component and your customer is in Dehli or Coventry, but they then sell their components to someone who eventually sells or plans to sell a product to the EU. You're still going to have to satisfy the EU reg even if you're 11 levels of indirection away from the EU. Lots of businesses that "don't sell to the EU" will still need to comply with EU standards.



Yup. We've given up an enhanced position with a seat at the table, to now interact with the EU like everyone else. We'll get by, but we've just given away a significant advantage.

I understand what you're saying because I said it too, only you appear to be ignoring what I put forward.

Using your example.

If I was selling a widget to Dehli, it doesn't need to meet EU regulations it needs to meet Indian regulations, as I'm sure you're aware. For the sake of argument lets say that the EU have insisted on 4 checks that the widgets must go through before they can be legally sold in the EU. These 4 checks are in place for a myriad of reasons but possibly also to protect EU businesses producing these same items for the EU, stifling competition from outside of the EU.

The widget I sell to India may only need to undergo 1 or 2 checks, or perhaps none. So the bureaucratic oversight is less therefore it will be easier and cheaper for me to produce, comply and sell to India than it would the EU. My widget business then just needs to make sure that widgets going to the EU comply with 4 checks and widgets going to India comply with 2. As part of the quality control process any of widgets that go to India can be removed from the rest of the checking process after they satisfy the requirements of India, saving money and increasing efficiency by no longer having to put all of your products through all 4 checks because our law encompasses everything handed down to us from Brussels.

So the seat on the table, giving us a voice but not a defining final say on the regulations that apply to 100% of UK businesses is not an enhanced position for UK business. You and Nick Clegg may think it's enhanced because we have a chance (which is all it is) to argue our case, but it's not as we could well be on the losing side of that argument and end up implementing rules we fundamentally disagree with. Whereas outside of the EU we can still comply with the EU regulations if we want to sell into the EU, if it becomes cost prohibitive to comply then we won't sell into the EU. Which is why the EU are protectionist at their core. It's ultimately better to allow the individual businesses to decide if they need to comply with EU regulation or not when producing their products rather than a blanket 100% compliance requirement as an EU member.

Edit: Keeping in mind with the above that the EU only represents 7% of the world.

StevieJ

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

I did not say that YOU said them although you did post the link, did you not?
I asked a question relating to your linked article:

I am not suggesting anything, but now you mention it, maybe (shock horror) the electorate were lied to. Maybe the South Asians, were [STRIKE]'promised' [/STRIKE] suggested to that less Poles meant more South East Asian immigration.

The UK curry industry is an important industry with more than £4bn a year in sales. Many in the industry backed Brexit following promises made by the Leave campaign, which said that controlling immigration from Europe would allow for more Tier 2 visas to be issued to south Asians such as those from Bangladesh and India. It has been widely reported that curry houses across the UK face mass closures as a result of chef shortages. Not only is it difficult to obtain tier 2 visas it is also difficult for employers to obtain tier 2 sponsorship licences.

http://www.workpermit.com/news/uk-tier-2-visas-u-turn-infuriates-brexit-backing-british-indian-restaurants-20170112

kabayiri

Arklight wrote: »

Or back in the real world. British widget manufacturers will conform to whatever the EU standard is, with no say at all about how that standard is set, because no-one wants a non compliant widget in their product.

Give me a specific example.

I can't think of any electronic component which is affected. I know where RFI emissions regulations come from, for example, and what is needed to comply.

But maybe you are talking about bolts or food additives?