If we vote for Brexit what happens

kabayiri

CKhalvashi wrote: »

Tories are still either hypocrites or liars though (or in the case of a lot of Tory MPs, both), so rightly claiming the moral high ground on this one

It was the Tory party who offered a simple clear in/out referendum question in their manifesto.

They are just following through on that manifesto commitment.

How many times have we complained on here that political parties don't commit to their election promises?

CKhalvashi

kabayiri wrote: »

It was the Tory party who offered a simple clear in/out referendum question in their manifesto.

They are just following through on that manifesto commitment.

How many times have we complained on here that political parties don't commit to their election promises?

I'd argue they haven't.

We're being told not to bind their hands, they did that in 2015 all on their own. Page 72 of this document (73 of the PDF):

https://www.bond.org.uk/data/files/Blog/ConservativeManifesto2015.pdf

But there is much more to do. The EU is too bureaucratic and too undemocratic. It interferes too much in our daily lives, and the scale of migration triggered by new members joining in recent years has had a real impact on local communities
We are clear about what we want from Europe
We say: yes to the Single Market
Yes to turbo- charging free trade
Yes to working together where we are stronger together than alone
Yes to a family of nation states, all part of a European Union – but whose interests, crucially, are guaranteed whether inside the Euro or out No to ‘ever closer union.’
No to a constant flow of power to Brussels
No to unnecessary interference
And no, of course, to the Euro, to participation in Eurozone bail-outs or notions like a European Army

There is a promise on that page to safeguard British interests in the single market. That was a lie. There is no democratic mandate to leave the single market, because they pledged to safeguard our interest within it.

Also take the voting record of my MP:

On 22 Jan 2014: Mark Prisk voted to support the that view that promoting jobs and growth in the EU, including by completing the EU Single Market, is the top priority.

On 10 Nov 2014: Mark Prisk voted for continued close working between the UK and other European Union states on criminal justice as well as for associated data protection measures

On 8 Feb 2017: Mark Prisk voted to empower the Prime Minister to give notification of the United Kingdom's intention to leave the European Union.

This is after the PM has already stated that she will not fight to keep either of these things. So I have an MP who allowed his party to lie to his voters, and is now systematically voting against what he claimed to think was right.

This is also a man who represents a significant number of workers at Stansted Airport, an airport that is only the size it is because of Ryanair's (an Irish airline) continued investment. I think it's safe to say that whatever the 'will of the people', he isn't acting in line with the promises his party made, nor is he acting in line with the best interests of his constituency.

How many more examples do you want? And yes, I will be sure to bring the matter to his attention publicly at the next election, as is my democratic right.

kabayiri

CKhalvashi wrote: »

I'd argue they haven't.
...

You are jumping the gun.

Cameron said it would be a simple question. It was.

Cameron said it would be a clear choice : In/Out. It was.

We can't assume how the A50 negotiations will go. It's not exclusively within our control. There is another party with a say in matters. That's kinda why you have negotiations I guess. We should give our negotiators the best tools and freedom to extract the best deal.

mystic_trev

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Meanwhile, Markit are reporting that UK business confidence is the most optimistic in almost two years:

British business sentiment surged from a four-year low and hit its highest level since mid-2015 in February, a survey by Markit showed on Monday, marking a recovery in corporate optimism after last year's Brexit vote.
A net 52 percent of firms expected activity to grow in the next 12 months, the first time the reading has been above 50 since June 2015.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-economics-markit-idUKKBN16K233?il=0

A_Medium_Size_Jock

CKhalvashi wrote: »

I will be sure to bring the matter to his attention publicly at the next election, as is my democratic right.

I was going to respond appropriately and discuss the very obvious shortcomings in your post.
Then I thought: "Meh. Why bother?".
So instead try this:

You go bring all that to your MP's attention.
It is indeed your democratic right.
And I'm sure he will appreciate your input.
But remember that it is also the democratic right of others to disagree with you.
And there are more of them than there are of you and those who think like you.

Just as the government official stance was pro-EU but a vote recently showed that the public in the UK disagreed.

CKhalvashi

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

I was going to respond appropriately and discuss the very obvious shortcomings in your post.
Then I thought: "Meh. Why bother?".
So instead try this:

You go bring all that to your MP's attention.
It is indeed your democratic right.
And I'm sure he will appreciate your input.
But remember that it is also the democratic right of others to disagree with you.
And there are more of them than there are of you and those who think like you.

Just as the government official stance was pro-EU but a vote recently showed that the public in the UK disagreed.

There is no flaw in my view at all. The airport (while not in his constituency) has not moved, however investment is threatened, as are jobs.

His voting record shows such inconsistency on this occasion and given the level of investment at risk I can safely say that I have very little faith in his approach to this.

At list prices there is almost £3bn of Ryanair metal placed there and the airport itself supports around 10000 jobs. We cannot afford to lose that as a result of a badly thought out national government plan.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Further to my post yesterday re: Holland, here is an interesting read from the FT regarding the Dutch and the EU:

“Most people knew very little about it but were supportive,” said Cas Mudde, a professor at the University of Georgia who specialises in European populism. “European integration was very much part of how the Dutch saw themselves — tolerant, open.”
But perhaps no longer. Amid festering anger about immigration and Greek bailouts, Dutch voters are expected to make the Freedom party (PVV) of Geert Wilders, the anti-Islam, anti-EU provocateur, one of the biggest winners on Wednesday.

https://www.ft.com/content/4520bb4c-07e3-11e7-97d1-5e720a26771b


(If you find this paywalled, just search "Populists seize the moment as Dutch fall out of love with EU" and you should find a full viewable article.)

setmefree2

BRITAIN BOOMING City on track to record nearly $70bn of merger deals in the first quarter of 2017 and boost Theresa May’s claim Britain remains open for business despite Brexit

Around $16 billion more than the same period last year

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3088678/city-on-track-to-record-nearly-70bn-of-merger-deals-in-the-first-quarter-of-2017/

setmefree2

Brexit: Early financial settlement won't be 'forced on UK'

The UK has been told it will not have to agree the exact sum of its financial exit settlement in the early stages after Article 50 has been triggered, BBC Newsnight has learned.
A message has been passed through informal channels from EU chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier to top figures in David Davis's department.
The UK would first have to agree the broad principles of the payment.
The principles for EU citizens in the UK would then have to be agreed.
Once these two principles have been agreed - on the financial settlement payment and EU citizens - Mr Barnier is prepared to open up the negotiations to cover all areas and the nature of the UK's future relations with the EU.
This would meet the UK demand for the negotiations on the UK's future trade deal with the EU to be discussed in parallel with the Article 50 talks.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39261669