If we vote for Brexit what happens

Moby

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

How can they be "massaged" figures "hiding" jobs which actually exist that you summarily judge to be "pretty crap"?

Whether or not the jobs are crap, the number of jobs is the number of jobs is it not?

Is this another example of liberal-chaos-think? Where statistics mean what you want them to mean depending on how you feel about them rather than what they actually are?

Nope Tricky...just google it and you'll see the headline figures and how we count job figures is highly controversial. IMO counting numbers alone is hardly evidence of a healthy economy/society. Statistics are often manipulated to fit your pre-existing message.

Herzlos

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Then lets see the breakdown, the evidence, that confirms the assertion that these are all 0 hour contract jobs in which people are earning no money and relying on food banks before we claim that the figures are because of these jobs?

I don't have it. Do you have any breakdown to show that these people who caused the reduction in unemployment went on to get a full time job on a normal contract?

Do we have any idea why the unemployment figure went down? Higher than usual death rate caused by the sudden cold winter? Moving out of the country for work? Moving them into some new "not-unemployed" jobseekers style category? Crappy casual employment? Good employment?

I'm not saying the figure is *wrong*, I'm saying there's a lot of interpretation there, and the figures have been deliberately misleading in the past.

Herzlos

CLAPTON wrote: »

the purchase of assets is generally based on long term considerations : will they produce a good level of
profits in the future?

The bar is lowered when the selling price of the asset drops by 20% rapidly.

obviously it depends upon the particular asset but such purchases are a vote of confidence in the future of the UK based businesses.

Not at all. It's just playing the market. If it's confidence of anything it's that (a) London house prices will go up (b) people will still need to rent and (c) people will still need utilities. All of that can be satisfied in a recession.

However a fall in the value of the pound is generally considered as a vote of concern about the future of the Uk.

Yup.

so why do we have both a loss of confidence in the UK and a vote of confidence

We don't. I haven't seen any vote of confidence in the UK. Plenty of opportunities to make money from it either way, especially with the weak GBP.

I believe our energy infrastructure is already largely foreign owned and the recent activity is largely a change in the foreign owners.

It is.

ruggedtoast

Herzlos wrote: »

Because someone in a 0-hours job, averaging 4 hours a week and relying on a foodbank still doesn't count as unemployed.

I don't think Jobseekers does either. It's pretty easy to reduce unemployment when you can shift lots of people into a different category. There's still a huge issue with unemployment in some groups.

Average pay increase of 2.6% is interesting though, it's not coming from the public sector (beyond MPs), and I've not seen it coming from retail/service. City of London pay rises / bonuses skewing things?

Yes exactly. Britain shifted hundreds of thousands of people off the unemployment list when they made further education or training compulsory for 16 - 18 year olds. Still on the bright side at least hundreds of thousands of 18 year olds can now write "Unemployed plumbers mate" on their JSA application, rather than just "Unemployed"

Maybe when Macquarie have had their hands on Thames Water for a while after the Tories' foreign sell off of yet another piece of our national infrastructure, we will need 2 million unemployed plumbers at short notice.

Conrad

Moby wrote: »

Problem with this country has always been a preponderance of little englander deference to those in power

Working class people have good instincts - they know not to trust pious BBC or Guardian reporters that only give a partial 'Blue Peter Badge' virtuous and highly dishonest world view.


Smug 'liberal' BBC reporters such as Orla Gurin caused the rapid spread of the Arab Spring that lead to Humanitarian disasters. It was they that effectively encouraged Egyptians, Syrians and others to fight for western democracy.


'Liberals' are absolutely toxic and inculcate dire outcomes.

Moby

CLAPTON wrote: »

you really despise the ordinary people of this country : just like the posh tory rich elitest boomers.

A bit of a contradiction there Clappers....isn't Dacre, Murdoch etc part of the tory rich elite then....aren't their editorials 99% of the time supporting the establishment?.....didn't both of these rags come out in favour of brexit big time? What exactly is the elite in your view. Are the people of Liverpool who despise the Sun not 'ordinary'?

Masomnia

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Yes exactly. Britain shifted hundreds of thousands of people off the unemployment list when they made further education or training compulsory for 16 - 18 year olds. Still on the bright side at least hundreds of thousands of 18 year olds can now write "Unemployed plumbers mate" on their JSA application, rather than just "Unemployed"

Maybe when Macquarie have had their hands on Thames Water for a while after the Tories' foreign sell off of yet another piece of our national infrastructure, we will need 2 million unemployed plumbers at short notice.

Yes because education is such a terrible thing. Pretty standard of the left really, being anti the working classes getting ideas above their station.

Moby

Conrad wrote: »

Working class people have good instincts - they know not to trust pious BBC or Guardian reporters that only give a partial 'Blue Peter Badge' virtuous and highly dishonest world view.


Smug 'liberal' BBC reporters such as Orla Gurin caused the rapid spread of the Arab Spring that lead to Humanitarian disasters. It was they that effectively encouraged Egyptians, Syrians and others to fight for western democracy.


'Liberals' are absolutely toxic and inculcate dire outcomes.

No.......... what you hate is that liberals challenge your staid world view, your little englander bigotry and selfishness. You hate being seen in this way....because let's face it who wants to stink the place out like your racist grandad at the family get together......so you invent false straw man arguments about a global liberal elite and prattle on about Shami Chakrabarti to deflect from your moral vacuousness

mayonnaise

Orla Guerin and Lyse Doucet caused the rapid spread of the Arab Spring...

CLAPTON

Moby wrote: »

A bit of a contradiction there Clappers....isn't Dacre, Murdoch etc part of the tory rich elite then....aren't their editorials 99% of the time supporting the establishment?.....didn't both of these rags come out in favour of brexit big time? What exactly is the elite in your view. Are the people of Liverpool who despise the Sun not 'ordinary'?

I'm always happy to talk about me but in this case I was offereing you the floor to explain your distain for the ordinary decent people of the UK

Moby wrote:

Problem with this country has always been a preponderance of little englander deference to those in power that's why media monopolies flourish here. Rags like the Sun and Mail are rightl despised in France for their provincial backwardness and bigotry.....but are the most widely read sources of news here.

Many people know why the people of Liverpool despise the Sun and it's for somewhat unique reasons and not a general comment on Dacre, Murdock etc..
I'm disappointed that you use that example to justify your general distain for the ordinary people of the UK.