Current market carnage - anyone selling or buying?

racing_blue

weight? wait.

been a long day but this thread worth staying up for. Night all

redux

A_Flock_Of_Sheep wrote: »

So let's just get back on topic everyone.....

How's the market carnage affecting you all?

I don't know, as its a bit hard to find much sign of it so far.

Some funds peaked the week between Christmas and New Year, then this week so far were down 3 or 4% and up 1.5 or 2%

It might be useful to find a great buying opportunity somewhere, but I haven't seen anything yet that stands out.

TheTracker

I logged on for first time since Xmas. Looks like my portfolio is down 1%. This is carnage???

bowlhead99

TheTracker wrote: »

I logged on for first time since Xmas. Looks like my portfolio is down 1%. This is carnage???

Utter carnage I tells you. Look, the wiggly lines are moving up and down over time!

gadgetmind

tg99 wrote: »

Correct. A lot of funds are permitted to use derivatives and CFDs for efficient portfolio management and others to implement investment views.

Which is (partly) why I won't use such funds.

zolablue25

OK, so I have now read all of this thread (shoot me now!) and it seems to have gone slightly off piste. I am confused by a Flock of Sheep's comments, not because they extoll the virtue of CFDs because anyone is entitled to do whatever they want with their own cash, but because on the one hand they state that they have more money than they want/need but then go on about how great it is to be making a stack on CFDs. Presumably this would be the infamous "Gambler's Buzz"?

Anyway, as I said I'm definitily not knocking AFOS as it's their money to do with as they wish. Neither I nor anyone else had the right to tell them what to do with it but, by the same token, no-one should take AFOS' actions as neccessarily being the correct course of action for their own wealth accumulation.

Caveat Emptor and all that

bowlhead99

zolablue25 wrote: »

OK, so I have now read all of this thread (shoot me now!)

Ha, shoot you 230-something posts earlier would have probably saved your mind...

Caveat Emptor and all that

That's what it always comes down to. Know what you want, research how to do it and what to be aware of, and do it. If you don't like what you got, blame the researcher.

on the one hand they state that they have more money than they want/need but then go on about how great it is to be making a stack on CFDs. Presumably this would be the infamous "Gambler's Buzz"?

As mentioned by others, a lot of people using CFDs, spreadbets and other derivatives lose money, or make less money than they could have from other methods, but enjoy it.

Much like poker. The bad players lose to the good players and the house rake; the medium players win from the bad players and lose to the good players and the rake, and the good players win from the medium players, hopefully enough to offset the rake. The consistent winners are professionals with large bankrolls, discipline and skill. The game is popular because a person without skill can make money from time to time, but only the top few percent are exercising the right skill and discipline consistently to grow their wealth.

FWIW I have no doubt from reading credibly-written posts on various threads over the last year that tg99 knows what he is talking about with respect to the usefulness of derivatives as part of an investment strategy. The fact that there are sensible reasons for using derivatives in different circumstances does not make anyone else 'right' for using them if those reasons don't outweigh other sensible considerations.

There are all kinds of quality products which exist but are not always suitable for all customers. We can draw our own conclusions on which people on the thread will ultimately be more or less successful in employing such techniques

gterr

OK, I'm not usually ruffled by an individual's pessimistic predictions about the stock market, but do we take RBS's comments seriously? If such a big concern tells its investors to 'sell everything' do we take heed? Or is there some other motive to them issuing such a start warning?

gadgetmind

bowlhead99 wrote: »

The fact that there are sensible reasons for using derivatives in different circumstances does not make anyone else 'right' for using them if those reasons don't outweigh other sensible considerations.

Perhaps, but they have gone *very* wrong even in the hands of professionals, including those with huge office blocks crammed full of PhDs.

If people want to use them, then that's absolutely fine by me, and we've taken a position that lets us profit whether they win or lose.

I also avoid (admittedly not totally) investing my money with fund/ITs that indulge in these kind of activities, and even go so far as to always look at the gearing level of ITs.

gadgetmind

gterr wrote: »

Do we take RBS's comments seriously?

RBS aren't exactly well known for deep financial insights and expert market timing. For example, they bought ABN AMRO in 2007 just before they lost 97% of their value.