Contactless payments?

securityguy

derrick wrote: »

Read my post above yours, instructions form Visa, plus I have seen similar signs near these terminals, "touch here to pay by contactless".


Ergo not contactless hence the term,"touch here".


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That avoids attempting to explain to users the distances involved (which can vary). The distance over which it will work without depends on the antenna and other conditions. The likely range in normal circumstances is a couple of inches. You can test this next time you're paying: just hold the card an inch away and you'll almost certainly see it work, then try successively larger distances on each attempt. The standard says about 10cm (four inches) but that depends on positioning the card correctly in the field, which isn't easy: as you get closer, it gets less fussy.

Saying "touch here" means that the payment will always work. But in reality, you can use them from a larger distance, or from in your wallet (if you are careful to only have one card in there).

(The phrase "contactless" doesn't refer to touching or not touching, by the way, but to metal-on-metal electrical contact. Even if the card is lying physically on the pad, it's still contactless, because there is no electrical contact, just RF induction).

derrick

colsten wrote: »

It doesn't matter what the pictures say. You don't need to make a physical contact between your card and the reader. You don't even have to take your card out of your wallet / purse if you don't want to.

Hence the term contactless.

It isn't just the pictures, it is Visa's instructions! And it is no good you keep saying "Hence the term contactless", when Visa use the term "touch your contactless card against the symbol until the lights turn green", hence the term, "touch your contactless card ", (hence oxymoron).

OK so you don't make contact, personally I have not used one and have no intention of doing so, but when Visa inform you to make contact and I have seen people using them by making contact and signs saying "contact here", then there would appear to be some inadequacies with the instructions given out if your experience is correct.

I was in Lidl 2-3 weeks back and a customer in front of me tried 3 times to pay by contactless, all failed when she waived the card close above the terminal, she then touched the card and payment went through.

Nationwide also say, (my bold) : -

1. Look for the contactless symbol when paying for items up to the value of £30
2. Touch the reader with your contactless card
3. Confirm successful payment when you see the green light and hear the beep. For extra security you may occasionally be asked to enter your PIN.

Emmerdale even has a Visa sign in the cafe saying, "Touch and pay with Visa contactless here", see ITV Player, then select Emmerdale, Fri 1 Jan, 7pm, scroll the video to 4.16 to see the sign.

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derrick

securityguy wrote: »

(The phrase "contactless" doesn't refer to touching or not touching, by the way, but to metal-on-metal electrical contact. Even if the card is lying physically on the pad, it's still contactless, because there is no electrical contact, just RF induction).

Definition of touch from oxforddicionaries.com = verb [with object] Come into or be in contact with.

i.e.not contactless.

collinsdictionary.com

Definiton of contactless =
Definitions

adjective

1. without contacts.

Touch and contactless are 2 different animals meaning the opposite of each other, ergo oxymoron when used in the context of a "contactless card" according to Visa instructions.

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securityguy

I'm sorry, but contactless cards (of the sort involved in payment systems) are defined in ISO 14443-1:2008+A1:2012, which defines contactless as follows on page 1:

3.2 contactless

pertaining to the achievement of signal exchange with, and supply of power to, the card without the use of galvanic elements (i.e. the absence of an ohmic path from the external interfacing equipment to the integrated circuit(s) contained within the card)

If you think that ISO/IEC are interested in your reference to OED, feel free to ask them to change the nomenclature used in fifteen years of standardisation work.

Yolina

Bogof_Babe wrote: »

I keep my debit card in a RFID-blocking cover (available online), so that it doesn't accidentally get "flashed" when I'm just standing too close to a terminal.

Alternatively, line your wallet with tinfoil. Did that with mine a few years ago as when I have NFC turned on on my phone, it tries chatting up the contactless cards in my handbag :rotfl: It goes "oh look, there's a chip I can talk to, hello there" Bleep; "oh, I can't understand it" Bleep bleep bleep - rinse and repeat, most annoying. Other than that I do like, and use, contactless.

Cycrow

derrick wrote: »

Definition of touch from oxforddicionaries.com = verb [with object] Come into or be in contact with.

i.e.not contactless.

collinsdictionary.com

Definiton of contactless =
Definitions

adjective

1. without contacts.

Touch and contactless are 2 different animals meaning the opposite of each other, ergo oxymoron when used in the context of a "contactless card" according to Visa instructions.

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Those instructions are just made simple so everyone can understand them.

its easier to tell someone to touch the card against the reader than to explain exactly how you can use it.

As said, you dont actually need to touch it for it to work

where_are_we

"Contactless" is much quicker than "chip and pin" and with 5% TSB cashback it is the No.1 card of choice for purchases up to £30. I must admit I touch the card on the reader. The problems with our TSB cards "failing" to contact, which regularly happened in the beginning appears to have ended.

robatwork

It's great. Once you try it you ain't never going back.

I was a bit surprised in Debenhams today when I made a £20 purchase that they don't yet support it, but imagine that's because most of what they sell will be transactions greater than £30.

You'll recognise the sceptics who don't like it on the High Street by their tinfoil headgear.

anoncol

derrick wrote: »

Definition of touch from oxforddicionaries.com = verb [with object] Come into or be in contact with.

i.e.not contactless.

collinsdictionary.com

Definiton of contactless =
Definitions

adjective

1. without contacts.

Touch and contactless are 2 different animals meaning the opposite of each other, ergo oxymoron when used in the context of a "contactless card" according to Visa instructions.

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Lol, I can't believe what I'm reading.

How do you explain it working when I don't touch it?:rotfl:

robin58

where_are_we wrote: »

"Contactless" is much quicker than "chip and pin" and with 5% TSB cashback it is the No.1 card of choice for purchases up to £30. I must admit I touch the card on the reader. The problems with our TSB cards "failing" to contact, which regularly happened in the beginning appears to have ended.

My Tsb still does not work in places like Waitrose, at both branches.

Strange the 2 places where it's read without any problems every time is Aldi and Lidl. Strange that.

One day I used it at Aldi (read), Waitrose (unread), Lidl (read) and Morrisions (read). I was told at Waitrose it was a problem with my card. I said rubbish and showed them the receipt from Aldi I had done 30 mins earlier.

I do find the phrase of contactless is a bit of a sore point when you have to basically ram the card through the reader display for it to read.