Paying for children at university

Jagraf

mumps wrote: »

The problem is that for some jobs you have no choice. Yes your niece can study to be an accountant without going to uni, one of mine is a nurse and had to go to uni and get a degree. No other way to do it. This goes for other jobs as well, lots I can think of are medical but I am sure there are others.

I agree with you that some degrees require full time study. So if you really want a career where you have to go to university full time (eg, medicine, dentistry) then it needs financial preparation. Just like choosing anything else in life. There is a huge choice of studying alternatives and uni full time is a luxury, not a right. And for most careers it doesn't teach you any more than working and studying at the same time.

mumps

Jagraf wrote: »

I agree with you that some degrees require full time study. So if you really want a career where you have to go to university full time (eg, medicine, dentistry) then it needs financial preparation. Just like choosing anything else in life. There is a huge choice of studying alternatives and uni full time is a luxury, not a right. And for most careers it doesn't teach you any more than working and studying at the same time.

Maybe if you are in hospital you won't think having trained nurses and doctors is a luxury.

mumps

missbiggles1 wrote: »

Unfortunately, as educational standards have plummeted, more and more jobs have become graduate entry in order to recruit applicants of a similar standard to what would once have been expected from those with A levels.

That might be true, I don't know as I have never worked in education, but I have worked in health care and I know that the standard of qualification required for many jobs will be higher because health care has moved on. Nurses are doing many tasks that I understand used to be done by junior doctors and paramedics are expected to do far more than ambulance crews used to do. They need to study to be able to do this.

missbiggles1

mumps wrote: »

That might be true, I don't know as I have never worked in education, but I have worked in health care and I know that the standard of qualification required for many jobs will be higher because health care has moved on. Nurses are doing many tasks that I understand used to be done by junior doctors and paramedics are expected to do far more than ambulance crews used to do. They need to study to be able to do this.

But you can make comparisons between the educational standards in your day and those of your children.

In education itself, you used not to need even A levels (only to have studied at that level) to train to teach and teaching hasn't become more technical, just more paperwork.

Jagraf

mumps wrote: »

Maybe if you are in hospital you won't think having trained nurses and doctors is a luxury.

I personally think they should widen training choices so that more people have the opportunity to become doctors and nurses, actually. At the moment most parents cannot afford to subsidise a medical degree. My daughter wants to do pathology and yes it is a luxury if she's able to do it. "Trained" doesn't have to equate to "university".

missbiggles1

Jagraf wrote: »

I personally think they should widen training choices so that more people have the opportunity to become doctors and nurses, actually. At the moment most parents cannot afford to subsidise a medical degree. My daughter wants to do pathology and yes it is a luxury if she's able to do it. "Trained" doesn't have to equate to "university".

For medicine, it really does - they're educated, not just trained. It isn't a subject that lends itself to an apprenticeship or part time study.

pigpen

Homeownertobe wrote: »

Thankfully most parents want their children to succeed and don't follow your rather draconian lead.

PMSL.. expecting adults to stand on their own 2 feet and be responsible is normal.. expecting mollycoddled pansies that need walking through life being led by the nose is not.. I am more than proud that my children are succeeding because they are working hard rather than being snivelling paps being spoonfed at an age when our parents and probably most of us were married with jobs a mortgage and probably children of our own!

How can we have people complaining their adult offspring are behaving like 12 year olds on one post yet here they are expected to be treated as though they are 12??

These over privileged immature snotwipes went the full length of our street and keyed every single car.. there are wing mirrors smashed off weekly, bins put on car roofs, windscreen wipers bent and broken, bins upturned, police raids for drug possession every so often and a street that stinks of weed... this is what they get up to when they aren't at home tied down by apron strings!! And if I've put an end to one 'party' I've put an end to 100 (one lot had a live band in their back garden!!).. usually with several arrests for drink driving and antisocial behaviour. Amazingly very few lock their front door, you go in, open the understair cupboard remove some fuses and leave They wouldn't do this at home, so no, they don't deserve to be anywhere that is a luxury and a pipe dream for far too many.

My offspring are the ones who come home, cook dinner, do their essays, clean their homes and complain about how the revolting minority give the decent hardworking students a bad name.


My daughter had a run in with her personal tutor a few weeks ago. she turned up unwell andtired and he accused her of being hung over.. she had not slept for 3 days due to a poorly child, being ill herself and the idiot students across the road screeching and being morons in the street in the middle of the night when they got home from whatever hole they had been in.. lets just say her reply was far from polite.. but his reaction is what the lecturers expect..

Andypandyboy

pigpen wrote: »

exactly what I expect of mine.. to work hard to get their qualifications if that is what they decide they want.. they are supposed to be adults by the time they start university so are treated as such.

The option is there, they are not 'disadvantaged' they can go, but I will not fund it any more than I would pay for a house deposit (I have paid bond money on a rented accommodation for one) or a wedding.. it is their choice not compulsory and a degree does not guarantee work in the future or an increased wage.

No, it isn't compulsory and there are other routes to education, but as a parent I couldn't stand by and see the aspirations of my kids go by the wayside because I wouldn't help them out.

I do think subject choice should align with reasonable career prospects and that there should be an expectation that there will be a balance between work and play that will result in attaining a good degree classification. Studies do show that those with a degree earn substantially more than those without. Of course it doesn't guaranteee a job but there are certain fields you simply cannot progress in or even enter without one. Without support those areas would be closed to many, which is a shame.

My kids will always have my support when it is needed, I think you seem to have a very black and white approach to supporting your kids and a very disparaging attitude to education.

You seem to be saying that kids with parental support are the ones who run riot, or is that just a rather convenient belief? None of mine behaved in that way and they were "supported" to the hilt, not mollycoddled.

Andypandyboy

missbiggles1 wrote: »

In an ideal world I'd agree but, given the number of NRPs on good money who avoid paying child maintenance even for dependant children, unfortunately I think it'd be unworkable.

Yes, I agree it would be hard to police, but I really think that if you bring a child into this world you should be forced to be financially responsible for it under the systems in place. So, you may cease to be with a partner but you should not be allowed to "divorce" yourself financially from a child.

Ditto those not willing to support them even if they live with them. It really shouldn't be a choice. If there are no financial consequences people could go on to have large numbers of children without fear they will be called on to do what most of us do as a matter of course.

It should be an attachment of earnings or some similar scheme. Why should the country shoulder the burden of paying larger amounts to those who have a parent earning?

You have a child, you support it under the means tested system.

pigpen

No, it isn't compulsory and there are other routes to education, but as a parent I couldn't stand by and see the aspirations of my kids go by the wayside because I wouldn't help them out.

there is the word ... 'wouldn't' ... a whole world away from 'couldn't'.



A degree doesn't ever guarantee a job with decent pay or a future filled with golden opportunities. My SIL who is shelf stacking in Tesco has better prospects than some. A degree can also be a hindrance .. heard the term 'over-qualified'?? The tutors at college are astounded that they have someone with a degree doing a level one course because he simply cannot find work! Those with a degree may earn more but getting that job in the first place has to happen which it doesn't always.

My offspring have my support utterly and completely and they totally know it.. but I will not hand over money which they also know.. like I said food, decent clothing, etc if I can but never ever cash. As I also said.. I look after my grandpest one afternoon a week while my daughter is at uni.. he really is a pest when with my small pest.. he is at nursery mornings and I pick him up and have him until about 4pm when his dad gets up and collects him. My DIL has him Monday afternoons, I have him Tuesday.. we work together as a family.. we couldn't do that if she was at uni elsewhere.. besides ours is a rather decent university. Practical support is offered in swathes.

And yes, in my experience as a parent, student and resident for the last 27 years, it is the more well off sweeties that run riot and have no boundaries.