Paying for children at university

Mojisola

Andypandyboy wrote: »

The point is that the amount of loan is based on household income, so it is calculated on the premise that parents will help out.

pigpen wrote: »

exactly what I expect of mine.. to work hard to get their qualifications if that is what they decide they want.. they are supposed to be adults by the time they start university so are treated as such.

But they aren't treated as independent adults by the government - if they were then all students would receive the same amount.

missbiggles1

silvercar wrote: »

Most people accept that our offspring don't turn into adults on their 18th birthday. Providing some continued support while they finish their education has become the norm. If you don't wish to do so puts them at a disadvantage in terms of the opportunities available to them.

A relevant degree from a decent university may not guarantee success in the future, but I would like my offspring to start off their career with the best chances of succeeding.

Work can be a struggle, but I would prefer they make their way with the right qualifications than without.

It's been the norm since my generation went to university in the 60s/70s - people often forget that grants were means tested (considerably less fairly) just as loans are.

missbiggles1

pigpen wrote: »

She is a grown up.. she doesn't live at home. I look after her son one afternoon a week.. but I'm home with my 2 anyway so it makes no difference to me.. I guess in that case I subsidise her by feeding him one meal a week.

Providing free childcare, even for only an afternoon, is still subsidising her.




Only in households where the finances allow.. mine don't and even if they did I would absolutely not fund a social life.. if they needed food I'd give food, if they needed shoes I'd provide those.

A degree from any university is a waste of time and paper if they cannot find work.. but if they want it they will work for it!

My friends OH studied Spanish Poetry.. fabulously useful in the real world, not!.. he has worked while studying to get a law qualification because he grew up and realised he had wasted several years! My OH with his useless degree (computer and electrical engineering) is studying joinery.. He has higher level qualifications than the tutors!!

I hope you haven't passed your contempt for higher learning on to your own children or you might find that history repeats itself.

(NB. The part time study your friend's OH is doing is quite possibly only available to someone who's a already a graduate - subject choice is often irrelevant.)

princeofpounds

In an ideal world I'd agree but, given the number of NRPs on good money who avoid paying child maintenance even for dependant children, unfortunately I think it'd be unworkable.

Not disagreeing with your point at all.


But as someone who has been at university in the fee-paying era, I can tell you that there are a good number of students who use the single parent status as a handy little scam.


Lots of bursaries, hardship payments, special accommodation etc. was going to people who claimed low income (usually on the mother's side) whilst the father in fact paid support under the table.


Anecdotally I would suggest it was about a third of people getting support, but I can't say that's anything more than a guesstimate.

missbiggles1

princeofpounds wrote: »

Not disagreeing with your point at all.


But as someone who has been at university in the fee-paying era, I can tell you that there are a good number of students who use the single parent status as a handy little scam.


Lots of bursaries, hardship payments, special accommodation etc. was going to people who claimed low income (usually on the mother's side) whilst the father in fact paid support under the table.


Anecdotally I would suggest it was about a third of people getting support, but I can't say that's anything more than a guesstimate.

It's certainly a loophole but it isn't a scam. Student funding is based on the income of the household which was their main residence, getting money from a NRP isn't included in any assessment.

It would be a scam if the PWC was living with a partner and that partner's income wasn't included in the assessment.

Lunar_Eclipse

pigpen wrote: »

they are supposed to be adults by the time they start university so are treated as such.

I agree with you, but sadly they are NOT treated as adults. The amount of financial help available to students in the UK is based purely on parental income, but, as you say, they are adults and as such should all be assessed on their own individual (dire) financial circumstances.

Students whose parents earn less get more help than those from parents who earn more. And of course those/any parents can choose not to contribute financially, which means those from poorer backgrounds are favoured by the system since higher education is more accessible to them.

Totally unfair system to assess adults on.

mumps

Big age gap with my 4 so all went to uni with three different grants/loan schemes. Two went in the nineties, one in 2008 and one in 2011 so fees were vastly different with the added fact that one did nursing so had no fees and a bursary. Of course nursing students have less time for part time jobs as they do half the year on placement and get shorter holidays.

I couldn't even tell you what each one got, we worked out what they needed and what we could do and did it. They don't seem to have worried about what each other was getting. It would have been impossible to give them all exactly the same and not fair in my opinion.

missbiggles1

Lunar_Eclipse wrote: »

I agree with you, but sadly they are NOT treated as adults. The amount of financial help available to students in the UK is based purely on parental income, but, as you say, they are adults and as such should all be assessed on their own individual (dire) financial circumstances.

Students whose parents earn less get more help than those from parents who earn more. And of course those/any parents can choose not to contribute financially, which means those from poorer backgrounds are favoured by the system since higher education is more accessible to them.

Totally unfair system to assess adults on.

Only for those who go more or less straight from school(just saying:)).

Student finance has been based on parental income since it was introduced after the war, so I can't see it changing any time soon. At least the assessment process is more generous and fair than it used to be.

princeofpounds

It's certainly a loophole but it isn't a scam. Student funding is based on the income of the household which was their main residence, getting money from a NRP isn't included in any assessment.

I think it differed from award to award generally, but I think much of the time you might be right. But it's a loophole so big you can drive a bus through it, and still quite wrong.


I had an acquaintance on full fee support driving a (used) BMW around campus whilst a housemate with two middle-low income parents struggled by on beans.

silvercar

princeofpounds wrote: »

I had an acquaintance on full fee support driving a (used) BMW around campus whilst a housemate with two middle-low income parents struggled by on beans.

Generally, the students with the poorest backgrounds do OK, due to extra grants and bursaries from the universities. The students from the richest backgrounds do OK because the bank of Mum/ Dad can afford to be generous. The ones in the middle have the hardest time.