Closest thing to "civil partnership" for couple who are not same-sex.

cavegrrl

Wow, I clicked on this post because I have similar feelings about marriage and was interested in what there was.. I find myself shocked at some of the comments.

I hope you find a solution which suits you!

If you were interested in going to Scotland, could you do it and then hold a mock-ceremony in England for family and friends?

HanSpan

cavegrrl wrote: »

Wow, I clicked on this post because I have similar feelings about marriage and was interested in what there was.. I find myself shocked at some of the comments.

I hope you find a solution which suits you!

If you were interested in going to Scotland, could you do it and then hold a mock-ceremony in England for family and friends?

Theoretically we could have a legal thing in Scotland then a party in England, but I can't imagine we would ever arrange any sort of party to celebrate something we aren't keen on in the first place!

I think I knew my question would have a strong reaction from some people, but even though I subconsciously expected some of it I am surprised by the vehemence that so many express about my views.

I've been to a lovely wedding, very recently, of a couple that are much younger than we are but still chose to incorporate many traditions I find uncomfortable - white dress, father to walk her down the aisle, a ceremony that ended with giving the newly wed man permission to kiss the newly wed woman, speeches from the men (not that I'd ever personally envy them that bit!), her changing her surname and so on.

All of that is their choice, I enjoyed the day and am really pleased they are happy. I didn't question their choices (and wouldn't unless asked) but that doesn't stop me privately wondering how any modern young woman can aquiesce to all that. I couldn't ever, and I can't help the fact that I feel that "getting married" is tacitly approving of it all.

Lily-Rose_3

HanSpan wrote: »

If I could bann all the patriarchal traditions from all marriages and totally disassociate them from the giving or selling of a woman from one man to another I wouldn't mind, but as long as the norm is for a woman to give up her name, be given away by one man to another, wear virginal white etc etc then I will never be comfortable with it.

I want the legal protections afforded to couples who marry for me and the man I have lived with for 25 years, yet I really don't want to take part in something I find so uncomfortable.

HanSpan wrote: »

If I do it that is exactly what I will do! I know not everyone now changes their name, or wears white, or is given away, and that I think most men now wear a ring where it was traditionally just women (which seemed to me like a sign of ownership). However the fact that so many do and have for so long makes the whole thing something I don't feel comfortable with. When people think of marriage they still think of all those things, and as long as that is so I don't want to be a part of it.

HanSpan wrote: »

Sorry if you feel I mislead you, that was not my intention.

I really don't want to be "married" and nor does my SO.
I am investigating options, and one of them is most certainly to accept the financial/legal disadvantages of continuing to live together with no legal ties.

None the less, if it is the best option for marriage we may still do it. Or not. We haven't decided!

I hope you find what you want Han, and I do get that you don't want marriage per se; however, I do think you have some pretty skewed and warped views and ideas on what marriage is. Me and my hubby have been married over a quarter century, and I have never once - ever - felt like he 'owns' me, or that I am a commodity or a possession; nor have I ever felt like less of a person. I would not like to have had our daughter out of wedlock either to be honest. Just my old fashioned views there.

I think it's better to be married if you have kids.

And of course there are many many advantages to it too! (As well as the companionship you have.)

Apparently Gillian Taylforth's partner of 23 years just died, and because they weren't married, and he didn't leave a will, she got ZERO in his will. It's all gone to their kids. If they had had no kids, any member of his family could have made a play for his possessions or estate. (I am happy to be corrected, but I think this is right...)

I actually love being married, I love being in a relationship, and I love being Mrs hisname. I know it's not for everyone, and I get that marriage makes you feel a bit 'bleh.' But you really cannot have everything marriage gives you, unless you get married.

Why not just do it? Just get married.

If you are that committed to each other, and you want protection and all of the trappings and protection that marriage brings, there is no reason to not get married.

And I think people have been so vehement and vocal, because they probably found some of your views on marriage quite insulting. (Although I am sure that was never your intention.)

I wish you well, but you really cannot have all that marriage brings if you refuse to get married. And as I said, I am really bemused by the ideas you have about marriage. It isn't the dark ages you know!

coolcait

HanSpan wrote: »

....

I've been to a lovely wedding...

I feel that "getting married" is tacitly approving of it all.

You (in general, not just 'you' specifically, OP) can 'get married' without 'having a wedding'.

That point has been made, in different ways, a number of times on the thread.

You don't need to 'have a wedding'. You don't need to incorporate any of the things which you've listed as making you feel uncomfortable.

You can follow the procedures for getting married in Scotland, avoiding most of the administrative things that you don't like; grit your teeth when you make the statutory declaration about marriage, because at least you won't have to use the word 'wife'; smile politely when the registrar calls you 'wife' once, in the statutory declaration which is required for legal reasons.

You can wear whatever you want. You can carry flowers if you want, or dispense with them if you prefer. You can have the world and his wife in attendance, or you can have a couple of randomers to act as witnesses.

You can walk into the room by yourself, or you can walk in with your partner. You can write any declarations of love, affection or practicalities that you want to have included. You can keep your own name. You can kiss your partner after the ceremony - or not. You can have a reception - or not. You can have speeches - or not.

It's all up to you.

You don't have to tell any of your relatives that you are married. You don't have to tell random questioners, or questionnaires, that you are married. You don't have to call yourself 'wife' and you don't have to call your partner 'husband'.

You can carry on living exactly as you do now, except that you will have a copy of the civil contract document which gives each of you the financial and other protections which you are looking for.

HanSpan

I certainly do not intend to offend anyone that chooses to get married. As I have said many times I believe very strongly that people should be allowed to do what fits their wishes/beliefs/feelings/principles as long as it hurts no-one else.

I think I would actually expect people who believe in marriage to be more offended if we did choose to do it, and do it in such a flippant way with the knowledge we really don't believe in it. I would expect that many would feel we were "cheapening" marriage.

Anyway - I don't expect anyone else to agree with how I feel, or even to understand it really, but I would like others to respect my right to have those feelings and not belittle them just because they don't feel the same.
I actually find it hard to understand how others do feel OK about marriage, but I don't question why they feel that way or question their right to feel that way.
I genuinely hope that all of you who have chosen to do it, or choose to in future, or indeed choose not to are very happy with your marriages or whatever you decide to do!

I know we could from a practical standpoint do all sorts of things that people have suggested in terms of getting married with the minimal of fuss, telling no-one etc, but I would still know. Having discussed it tonight with the SO he feels the same and really doesn't want to be married and he would still know. Oh and he doesn't want to ruin a holiday by doing it then either - a thought I hadn't considered!

So if they change the law we will have a civil partnership, if not its pretty likely we will stay as we are. We have wills so that's sorted, and no children, so the only thing left to do is actually finalise the Power of Attorneys. First job tomorrow!

Thanks for all the information and suggestions.

Homeownertobe

Lily-Rose wrote: »

I hope you find what you want Han, and I do get that you don't want marriage per se; however, I do think you have some pretty skewed and warped views and ideas on what marriage is. Me and my hubby have been married over a quarter century, and I have never once - ever - felt like he 'owns' me, or that I am a commodity or a possession; nor have I ever felt like less of a person. I would not like to have had our daughter out of wedlock either to be honest. Just my old fashioned views there.

I think it's better to be married if you have kids.

And of course there are many many advantages to it too! (As well as the companionship you have.)

Apparently Gillian Taylforth's partner of 23 years just died, and because they weren't married, and he didn't leave a will, she got ZERO in his will. It's all gone to their kids. If they had had no kids, any member of his family could have made a play for his possessions or estate. (I am happy to be corrected, but I think this is right...)

I actually love being married, I love being in a relationship, and I love being Mrs hisname. I know it's not for everyone, and I get that marriage makes you feel a bit 'bleh.' But you really cannot have everything marriage gives you, unless you get married.

Why not just do it? Just get married.

If you are that committed to each other, and you want protection and all of the trappings and protection that marriage brings, there is no reason to not get married.

And I think people have been so vehement and vocal, because they probably found some of your views on marriage quite insulting. (Although I am sure that was never your intention.)

I wish you well, but you really cannot have all that marriage brings if you refuse to get married. And as I said, I am really bemused by the ideas you have about marriage. It isn't the dark ages you know!

Ex partner. They were not together.

Tygermoth

We are both shy quiet people who would just like to register paperwork to show our legal preference. No registry office, no change of standing or marital status. Just a quiet confirmation that should I be in A and E my partner gets a say in my treatment or if I die they get anything I leave.

We like what we have, it has worked for us for many many years and we don’t want to change it but what I do want is to be able to offer my partner the legal protection that comes from a long lasting commitment because he is a outstandingly wonderful person and deserves that consideration.

But what we don’t want a wedding or even a marriage just to gain a legally recognised partnership and the protections that status brings - it seems very wrong, a little fraudulent and as someone said before cheapens it for those that hold the institution very dear - I just want my partner to be recognised in law and therefore to be legally able to honour my wishes.

So a form of civil partnership would suit us down to the ground.

missbiggles1

Tygermoth wrote: »

We are both shy quiet people who would just like to register paperwork to show our legal preference. No registry office, no change of standing or marital status. Just a quiet confirmation that should I be in A and E my partner gets a say in my treatment or if I die they get anything I leave.

We like what we have, it has worked for us for many many years and we don’t want to change it but what I do want is to be able to offer my partner the legal protection that comes from a long lasting commitment.

But what we don’t want a wedding or even a marriage just to gain a legally recognised partnership and the protections that status brings - it seems wrong, a little fraudulent and as someone said before cheapens it for those that hold the institution very dear - I just want my partner to be recognised in law and to be legally able to honour my wishes.

So a civil partnership would suit us down to the ground.

Where else would you register legal paperwork except in a registry office? Where do you expect to register a civil partnership?

pollypenny

In my eyes a simple registry office 'ceremony' is scant on ceremonial and is, in effect, a civil partnership.

ecgirl07

HanSpan wrote: »

I think I would actually expect people who believe in marriage to be more offended if we did choose to do it, and do it in such a flippant way with the knowledge we really don't believe in it. I would expect that many would feel we were "cheapening" marriage.

I think you are putting too juch on what other people think. I was going to suggest http://www.weeweddings.co.uk go away for the weekend have a humanist ceremony on the beach in your jeans if you want. (Ignore the wedding side and see the legal side)

I hope civil partnerships come in for everyone and you and your oh find something that works for you.