Dog at stud??

Mrs_pbradley936

mel48rose wrote: »

Why is it such a bad idea in your opinion?

No idea what her opinion would be but you can have mine. I have owned a number of stud dogs which were breed champions and they were used at stud extensively. All hip scored, no other tests being required when I was breeding dogs decades ago.

It is likely to make a pet dog aggressive and assertive if you wake up urges in him and those urges are hardly ever satisfied. He could change from being a lovable pet to a headstrong aggressive dog which is no pleasure to own.

If you love him so much try and get another from similar stock. If he is well bred that should be easy.

Person_one

mel48rose wrote: »

Why is it such a bad idea in your opinion?

There's no shortage of dogs in this country, I personally think that anybody wanting to create more should be doing it for the right reasons. Not for money, not because puppies are cute, and not for the hell of it, but because they are highly knowledgeable and committed to responsible breeding and have a dog whose genes would be beneficial to the breed's future as well as perfect vetted homes already lined up for all potential pups.

Around 8000 dogs are killed in the country every year just because there are more dogs than loving homes. To add to those numbers, you need good reasons and plenty of expertise. Hobby breeders are a huge part of the problem.

I mention cost, as a truly responsible breeder understands that money should not be a deciding factor in the decision.

DTDfanBoy

Ideally your dogs hips should have been tested at 12 months old, a hip test at two years old is very far from ideal, eye tests are required on a yearly basis.

As you seem to be a little unsure of some of the basics you should probably also have a look at any restrictions that have been placed on your dog, it's fairly unlikely that you have a dog of excellent pedigree that doesn't have restrictions in place, and to be honest if your dog has no restrictions in place it probably should not be bred.

thorsoak

The KC now requires that both parents of puppies to be registered have ALL the tests considered requisite by the breed club - in your case, the requirements for labrador retrievers are:-

Hip score : no more than 15 (and they should be as even as possible- ie 7:8

Elbow score : 00

Eye testing : annually (unless genetically clear eyes).

Hips and elbows are scored by using x-rays, at no less than 1 year of age. Whilst this is generally done under GA, there are certain vets/vetinary schools where it is done under sedation.

As others have said, once a dog is used at stud it can change his personality and sadly not necessarily for the better :-( If he can smell a b - itch in season - even a couple of miles away he may become aggressive towards other male dogs, even if they are usually his friends.

There are more labrador puppies registered with the KC than any other breed - and even more unregistered ones - and adolescent labs find themselves in rescue more than other dogs apart from staffies.

As the owner of the stud dog, you should have as much responsibility for the puppies born from the mating as does the owner of the female. And that doesn't just mean as puppies - for the whole of the lifetime.

And actually, unless your dog is recognised as an good example of the breed - through showing or working, it is not likely that a good breeder would look to use your boy at stud. Someone else has suggested that you look at his pedigree, go back to his lines and look for a puppy from those lines.

My family kept a line of labradors going for almost 40 years and have seen the improvements in the breed due to the health screening tests (no hip tests until the 80s, and eye tests coming in later, elbows even more recently) and my labs live well into their teens. My 12 year old can still enjoy a 3 mile run along the beach with my 7 & 5 year olds. They aren't of my breeding - but all of them have many of the same lines running through them.

Here is a good site for information :- http://www.rivermeadowlabradors.co.uk/healthexplained.html

teddysmum

An excellent pedigree doesn't mean that a dog would make good breeding material (ie being very near to breed standard or producing quality offspring).


When breeders have a litter, they often keep the best for themselves or sell at a high price to other breeders. Those who aren't as near breed standard as required are sold as pets, with the in-betweens, possibly, going to novice show homes/breeders.

One of my boys has a pedigree which is 75% 'red'( ie three quarters of his forebears, including his father, were champions), but while one litter brother became a champion (though abroad where there is not as much competition), my boy, second best in the litter, would never have been good enough ( for show or breeding).


You also have to consider whether the lines of both animals mated have clear lines for known hereditary defects/diseases of the breed.

Katiehound

Person_one wrote: »

If cost is even a factor, this is a bad idea.

and that is why we end up with people breeding as a hobby to "make a bit of pocket money" and selling puppies through the small ads in the paper or online, in pubs etc.
As has already been said already too many dogs without homes which are put down each year thro' no fault of their own.

A dedicated breeder wants to improve the breed with a wide gene pool and at last it looks as if the KC is starting to take a bit of notice.

jenhug

thorsoak wrote: »

The KC now requires that both parents of puppies to be registered have ALL the tests considered requisite by the breed club - in your case, the requirements for labrador retrievers are:-

Hip score : no more than 15 (and they should be as even as possible- ie 7:8

Elbow score : 00

Eye testing : annually (unless genetically clear eyes).

Hips and elbows are scored by using x-rays, at no less than 1 year of age. Whilst this is generally done under GA, there are certain vets/vetinary schools where it is done under sedation.

As others have said, once a dog is used at stud it can change his personality and sadly not necessarily for the better :-( If he can smell a b - itch in season - even a couple of miles away he may become aggressive towards other male dogs, even if they are usually his friends.

There are more labrador puppies registered with the KC than any other breed - and even more unregistered ones - and adolescent labs find themselves in rescue more than other dogs apart from staffies.

As the owner of the stud dog, you should have as much responsibility for the puppies born from the mating as does the owner of the female. And that doesn't just mean as puppies - for the whole of the lifetime.

And actually, unless your dog is recognised as an good example of the breed - through showing or working, it is not likely that a good breeder would look to use your boy at stud. Someone else has suggested that you look at his pedigree, go back to his lines and look for a puppy from those lines.

My family kept a line of labradors going for almost 40 years and have seen the improvements in the breed due to the health screening tests (no hip tests until the 80s, and eye tests coming in later, elbows even more recently) and my labs live well into their teens. My 12 year old can still enjoy a 3 mile run along the beach with my 7 & 5 year olds. They aren't of my breeding - but all of them have many of the same lines running through them.

Here is a good site for information :- http://www.rivermeadowlabradors.co.uk/healthexplained.html

I wish I could thank this post a dozen times over!

teddysmum

Regarding the effects on a dog used as a stud:


The breeder I have bought three of my dogs from had all females and just one boy, who was used very sparingly for stud (twice , I think). He was then castrated (due to a possible health problem).


His temperament was always lovely, but he never forgot what he once had and though kept at night in his owner's bedroom, which was in a separate building, when a girl was on heat, he would get very upset, trying to scratch the door down.


He eventually went to live, as an only dog, with the lady's son, whom he adored.

krlyr

As well as considering why you think you should stud your dog, consider the kind of people would would want to use your dog as a stud too.

Is your dog an exceptional example of his breed? What support do you have for this? Has he done really well in some kind of physical test, e.g. he does regular gundog work and excels at it. Has he been in the show ring and proved to meet the breed standard perfectly? Is he from champion, well-sought-after lineage? Does he have hip and elbow scores that exceed that of the majority of available studs, and otherwise exemplary health and temperament that would benefit the breed majorly?

What makes him different to his father - who is a proven stud from a breeder who potentially knows a lot more about what they're doing. If he had such potential, why was he sold into what was presumably (assuming you haven't discussed this etc. with the breeder since you're having to ask here) was intended as a pet home. Many breeders will hold back their really brilliant looking pups if they see potential, or rehome on the proviso that they could use the pup for stud as some point.

If he's amazing, why hasn't the breeder contacted you about using him for stud before - and if he isn't that amazing a dog, I would query the 'quality' (as in health, temperament, etc.) of the intended mate if they're willing to settle with a less than amazing stud (that's no criticism against your dog at all, I'm talking in terms of breeding quality rather than suggesting he's not a wonderful pet dog)

https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/media/8313/stud.pdf

I am definitely not against breeding - I would happily buy from a reputable breeder and probably will do so in a few years time. But to breed your dog just because you want one puppy isn't the best way to make that decision. If he's so great, get another puppy from his breeder - you'll end up with a dog with a more similar temperament, especially if related to your dog..whereas if you stud yours out you may find the pup inherits its mum's temperament/nature.

thorsoak

jenhug wrote: »

I wish I could thank this post a dozen times over!

Thank you! x