Boundary Dispute

paddy's_mum

Keep every last written comment. They may one day be very valuable, if ever this escalates to a criminal damage, breach of the peace or boundary dispute matter. Courts are not usually very impressed by a catalogue of behaviour that could be considered harassment.

While I realise that suggestions about keeping yourself non-stressed over things such as this are easy to say but much harder to do (been there, read the book and got the t-shirt) and you have to carry on living next door to them, in the end there is little they can do to force you to agree.

I'd also expand on my earlier comment that kicking off a boundary dispute is a very expensive pastime. It will cost them thousands of pounds since there is no legal aid for civil matters like this, plus they will come to realise that a dispute will (indeed, must) affect the future sale of their own property via the Property Information Form. You, in the meantime, can either ignore your neighbours or politely decline to discuss the matter any further. Ignore also any solicitors letters that arrive which they will have to pay for, as you are not obliged under any law that I know of to enter into expensive legal to-and-fro'ing.

You hold all the cards here.

If the haranging continues, you may want to have a solicitors letter sent to them stating that further hassle will be viewed as harassment, and hope it puts a warning shot across their bows.

Deep breaths, now...and good luck.

AndyBSG

It's your fence so they are not allowed to touch it and to do so would be criminal damage and that is the end of the matter

Those are the facts and everything else is just noise.

I'd send them a very short E-mail stating exactly that then do not correspond with them any further.

Pricivius

Just to clarify... the boundary between two properties is a line of infinitesimally small thickness. So, does this wall/railing arrangement sit across the line so that half is on your land and half is on theirs, or is the boundary at the face of the wall on your neighbours' side?

When people replace boundary features, they like to maximise their space so they put the boundary feature straddling the boundary line. And this is where problems can arise as technically, half of it is in the neighbours' garden. This is likely to make it a party wall so that each side owns to the boundary line and any decisions impacting on all of it must be made jointly. This is why it makes most sense to replace a boundary feature so that it sits entirely on your own land, it is completely yours and you can do what you want with it. The neighbours are then free to erect their own feature on their side of the boundary line.

So... are your neighbours hinting that they thing the wall/railing arrangement is straddling the boundary and therefore they can do what they want with the half on their land? Or do they accept that it is yours and entirely on your land?

Nicki

Pricivius wrote: »

Just to clarify... the boundary between two properties is a line of infinitesimally small thickness. So, does this wall/railing arrangement sit across the line so that half is on your land and half is on theirs, or is the boundary at the face of the wall on your neighbours' side?

When people replace boundary features, they like to maximise their space so they put the boundary feature straddling the boundary line. And this is where problems can arise as technically, half of it is in the neighbours' garden. This is likely to make it a party wall so that each side owns to the boundary line and any decisions impacting on all of it must be made jointly. This is why it makes most sense to replace a boundary feature so that it sits entirely on your own land, it is completely yours and you can do what you want with it. The neighbours are then free to erect their own feature on their side of the boundary line.

So... are your neighbours hinting that they thing the wall/railing arrangement is straddling the boundary and therefore they can do what they want with the half on their land? Or do they accept that it is yours and entirely on your land?

They are hinting that the railings are in the middle of the wall and the wall straddles the boundary, and so they can paint both sides of the railings (their side and ours) in the colour of their choice.

The wall on which the railing sits was built back in 2000 so I have no idea now whether or not the outer edge of the wall touched the boundary line or whether the middle of the wall does. But if they want us to demolish the wall (and therefore the railings) and move it back to where they think the boundary line is, then they'd need to provide some evidence surely that it had been built straddling the boundary line (and also wouldn't we be able to claim adverse possession in that case as it was built more than 12 years ago?)

If they were able to demonstrate to us that the wall was in the wrong place, surely the answer then would be for us just to demolish the wall and move it and the railings back to where they say the boundary line is? That would however mean also demolishing the pillar at the end of the wall, which the previous owners of our property also constructed and which is the same width as the wall, to which their very large and expensive gate is attached

There is room on the wall for two sets of railings, and we have also offered to let them put their own set of railings up on the wall and paint them whatever colour they wish, but the only thing they want is to paint the existing railings on both sides in their colour.

Winter_Phoenix

If your "discussions" with your neighbours on this subject have been either in person or by e-mail, then I suggest that you write them a polite little letter and post it to them from the nearest post office (keeping a copy and the proof of posting).

All you need to say is, "With reference to our discussions about painting the railings which mark the boundary between our houses, this is just to confirm that the railings belong to my/our property (they were put up in 2000 by the previous owner of my/our house). We/I appreciate your offer to paint our railings, but have decided that, in keeping with the Listed Building and Conservation Area guidelines, the railings should remain black."

You might also consider CC'ing (or BCC'ing) the letter to the Conservation Area and Listed Buildings departments at your local council.

This will make the position absolutely clear if things later escalate, for example, if they paint the railings fluorescent pink and the Listed Building/Conservation Area people threaten YOU with dire consequences because the railings belong to you.

Nicki

Pricivius wrote: »

This is likely to make it a party wall so that each side owns to the boundary line and any decisions impacting on all of it must be made jointly.

Does it help then Pricivius even if the wall can be deemed to be a party wall, that when we painted the railings last year, we did ask their permission to paint both sides of the railings, as we thought it would look odd on their side if it wasn't painted, and they not only agreed to the colour last year but also gave us access to their land to do it?

So the decision on colour last year was made jointly, but no decision can be reached this year about changing that colour as we cannot agree their suggestion, and they will not consider any other options - so does that mean the railing either stays as it is, or they need to make an application to someone for permission to change it? They can't just do so unilaterally?

bouicca21

I very much doubt your neighbours could possibly prove that you need tomove the wall and railings - what kind of plan would be accurate to the necessary level of detail?

In the meantime, pen and paper, proof of posting, and something on these lines:

Dear Neighbour

I am in receipt of your numerous emails about painting the railings [glow in the dark pink]. Although the railings are my property, I am not authorised to consent to a change of colour since I understand that this requires grade 2 listed building consent. I suggest you make further enquiries of [planning officer] at [address].

I am copying this letter to [planning officer] for information. Please do not contact me again on this matter until you have clarified the issue with [planning officer].

Mojisola

bouicca21 wrote: »

I very much doubt your neighbours could possibly prove that you need tomove the wall and railings - what kind of plan would be accurate to the necessary level of detail?

In the meantime, pen and paper, proof of posting, and something on these lines:

Dear Neighbour

I am in receipt of your numerous emails about painting the railings [glow in the dark pink]. Although the railings are my property, I am not authorised to consent to a change of colour since I understand that this requires grade 2 listed building consent. I suggest you make further enquiries of [planning officer] at [address].

I am copying this letter to [planning officer] for information. Please do not contact me again on this matter until you have clarified the issue with [planning officer].

This suggests that, if they get permission from the PO, you will allow them to repaint the railings!

I would keep to the line that the wall and the railings are yours and they have no right to do anything to them.

bouicca21

This suggests that, if they get permission from the PO, you will allow them to repaint the railings!

Then maybe add a sentence to the effect that even if such permission is granted you will not be prepared to change the colour. Or that once the issues are clarified they can approach you again.

I was basically trying to think of a way to get them off OP's back ...

paddy's_mum

bouicca21 wrote: »

that once the issues are clarified they can approach you again.

I was basically trying to think of a way to get them off OP's back ...

I don't think that would work simply because with stroppy so-and-so's like this, if you give them an inch, they'll take a liberty.

OP's approach needs to be "my answer is no ..and that's the end of it! Now go away and pester someone else!"