Warning - BT Cessation Charge extortion

unforeseen

Your line needs to be disconnected from the broadband kit to allow somebody else to use it. There are numerous cases of people unable to get broadband due to lack of capacity at their exchange. Disconnecting a line when broadband is ceased lessens the chances of this happening.

lee111s

DavidP24 wrote: »

No that is not a good comparison, because a DVD is required to be returned.

It is almost 99% certain that BT will make an install charge for the line.

There is no additional work to be done, just a cash grab

It is a good comparison, because a line is required to be disconnected so that it becomes "spare" especially in large, busy exchanges where there can be hundreds of lines stopping and starting per day.

There is work to be done.

Openreach disconnect the line from the bar pair on the min distribtution frame.

When a new customer orders a line, the system generates the routing to ensure that the new customer's phone rings when someone dials their number. The engineers then have to connect their line to the correct bar pair to ensure the line is then connected to the correct equippment in the exchange, depending on which communication provider the customer is using. That's just for the line. There's a similar process for broadband.

Each local loop unbundled ISP has their own exchange equipment.

DavidP24

I am sorry but as someone who has managed networks on one of the biggest Intranets in Europe with over 100,000 nodes that is nonsensical to me.

There is a procedure called cancellation and a procedure called transfer, the latter requires an action to reassign a node NOW the former vacates a node.

To vacate the node all that needs to happen is for someone to mark it as vacant in a database and that will make available all of the connections it was previously allocated to.

It will likely be a number of days or hours before an installation will take up either the connections in that locale or even in that premises.

I have terminated services before, it usually happens when I move and I am in temporary accommodation for a few weeks.

Due to the OFCOM rules of 14 days notice I have learnt that you have to cancel your line at least 21 days before your move to avoid the next person being able to make calls on your line. Last time I did this the line was made inactive in 3 days, I gave notice on the Friday and it was gone on the Monday.

Worst case scenario in terms of effort is that someone unplugged a Lan Port or equivalent, but in this day and age it should have just been a tick on a box or dragging a node into a pool on a computer screen.

My point is that when I leave someone new will move in, they will order broadband and a fee will be charged, or someone will move into the local and take the connection, either way BT gets paid already.

If BT is so disorganised that they can't keep track of their own network why should I the customer have to pay? Is it my fault they have not invested in the kit to manage this virtually? Imagine all the jobs they could cut. Less engineers scrambling to find a connection, sometimes !!!!!!ing up someone else's line in the process.

In terms of design, each premises is connected to a green box of some point and each connection in the green box is connected to some sort of patch panel in the exchange. Now having done the work to connect the premises to the green box it should NEVER be undone, at the exchange if it is a manual system they need to patch the node for that green box node to the appropriate lan. In a modern system there would be a permanent connection to a network and the connection to Sky, TalkTalk, Virgin, Plusnet, BT would simply be a VLAN connection done on a computer.

If they leave it manual then that is their fault, to keep disconnecting and reconnecting the green box ports is nuts and is it any wonder that we then see cases like the one below where there is a soldered connection that has caused 6 engineer visits.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5634781

and we pay for the privilege of their incompetence, TWICE!

lee111s

You're wrong.

There's a process called a working line takeover, which allows the new resident to "take over" a working line, which results in no cessation charge.

We're not talking about intrannet netoworks, we're talking about a telephone exchange.

There are many LLU suppliers with their own kit which wires have to be PHYSICALLY jumpered to and from.

Your assumptions about people ordering a new line and broadband are incorrect. I have friends who solely use a 4G router, as well as others who use Virgin, which has nothing to do with Openreach's network.


OFCOM are happy with the charge being levvied.

Don't like it? Well that's just tough.

iniltous

The fact is if you cease a WLR broadband connection with Sky or BT or anyone else , Openreach do have work to perform, posters here may well think they know how to design a process that negates the need for this work, but the fact is a visit to the exchange is required, the process has been vetted by Ofcom and the (wholesale) charge set is regarded as reasonable by them, given the way they ride OR on every issue if the charge was unnecessary or excessive do you not think they would intervene ?
If OR have non maintenance work to do on a Sky or TT or BT line should they get paid for that work ?, OR do not have any billing relationship with end users, they in effect do the work required of them by the communication provider and quite rightly bill the CP for that work....as a business a CP may well absorb costs when winning a customer, but if they are losing a customer why on earth would they absorb that cost ?
Fact is , migrate between providers, no extra charge , there is a cost to the CP but its regarded as cost of business and absorbed into the initial or ongoing monthly charge , cease your broadband completely , the line is reverted to a DEL ( direct exchange line ) which requires actual work, and records updating/amending etc,and as OR do this work, then it's correct they should be paid for it.
If a CP is waving a customer bye bye, why would they absorb that final cost ?, they don't have to pass it on to their ex customer, but they do , because it would be stupid not to.
FWIW, I don't think the DVD rental analogy is bad, ( is DVD rental still a thing though ?) you wouldn't ring the the place and say you have finished watching it, so they better come round and pick it up, there wouldn't have been anything stopping a company delivering and pick up DVD's after you watched them, but they would charge more for this service than shops that you visited twice, once to pick the DVD up and once to return it,
If CP's wanted to charge up front for the provision and cease ( that you the end user would pay for) they could, then not charge you if you leave, but that would make them look less competitive in the first place and you would be paying for something you may never use.

kwikbreaks

iniltous wrote: »

the fact is a visit to the exchange is required

Most exchanges have multiple engineer visits daily. It isn't as if they all sit in an office somewhere and jump in a van for each termination. I doubt if anything much gets done until something on the old connection is required to make a new one and that work will be charged to somebody or other and will just amount to either a physical transfer or a console job that won't require an exchange visit.

The charge was just another way of extracting cash from customers.

lee111s

kwikbreaks wrote: »

Most exchanges have multiple engineer visits daily. It isn't as if they all sit in an office somewhere and jump in a van for each termination. I doubt if anything much gets done until something on the old connection is required to make a new one and that work will be charged to somebody or other and will just amount to either a physical transfer or a console job that won't require an exchange visit.

The charge was just another way of extracting cash from customers.

Except it's not a charge raised by Openreach to the users. It's a charge rasied by Openreach to the communication providers for carrying out work, think of it as an invoice if you will.

Communication providers then pass that charge, rightly so, to the customer.

iniltous

kwikbreaks wrote: »

Most exchanges have multiple engineer visits daily. It isn't as if they all sit in an office somewhere and jump in a van for each termination. I doubt if anything much gets done until something on the old connection is required to make a new one and that work will be charged to somebody or other and will just amount to either a physical transfer or a console job that won't require an exchange visit.

The charge was just another way of extracting cash from customers.

So, can you get on a bus or a train for free ?, after all it will be going to its destination regardless if you get on it or not, so try getting on one, and using 'you are going there anyway , why should I pay' and see how far you get...I dare say when Ofcom had a say in setting the figure it wasn't based on an engineer being raised from his slumber, jumping in a van, driving 50 miles, doing 1 cease job and jumping back in the van and driving back, it will be an aggregate , so yep there will be cease jobs that don't cost whatever the wholesale price is ( £30+ is the retail price) but others that cost more than it, the fee is averaged out

[Deleted User]

KayTo wrote: »

i was made redundant a few months ago and it's unfortunately now at the stage where money is extremely tight so I had to make the decision to cancel my broadband. This was actually out of the 12 month contract and rolling month to month at a higher rate as I can not commit to any length of contact while unemployed. I called to cancel and was asked the reason, which I gave, the advisor offered a reduced contract but I advised as above, I was not in a position to commit to any contract at the moment, he was very sympathetic and noted the months notice and that service would cease on Christmas Day.
I received a confirmation of cancellation email which stated that I am to be charged a further £31 for the privilege of leaving as a 'cessation charge'. The BT website said only that this charge was 'compensatory' but the link supposedly to 'more details' did not work, so I called.......15 minutes later when the call was answered, (foreign call centre?) the advisor was defensive and said if the link to more details didn't work I should just google it and Plusnet did the charges too. I used the analogy of a bus driver demanding the same fare on exit as entry for stopping the bus to let me off, but he said it was more like 'hiring a whole bus', and had I been switching provider, I would not have incurred the charge. At no point in my original call to cancel was I made aware of this charge. It may be legal, but I feel, given the circumstances, this charge is totally unfair and when I DO gain employment, hopefully in the very near future, BT will NOT EVER, be on my list of preferred providers.

If they didn't mention the charge then write to one of the addresses linked here http://www.btcomplaint.com/2013/12/contact-numbers-and-addresses-for-complaining-to-bt-customer-service/

Just explain (or copy & paste from here) what happened and see if you can get your money back (presuming you've already paid it).

kwikbreaks

lee111s wrote: »

Except it's not a charge raised by Openreach to the users. It's a charge rasied by Openreach to the communication providers for carrying out work.

imo this is truly the lamest response I have seen on any forum on any topic ever.