Help preventing Bank Rip-off When Sending money Overseas ?

grumbler

Ballard wrote: »

2. Three banks were involved. HSBC UK. HSBC USA. unnamed US bank. All are expected to process a payment for a grand total of £4. Really? HSBC would need to know the charges for each of their correspondents plus every bank in the world for receiving funds.

Why not, especially if two of them are HSBC and transfer between them costs £0?

3. You are welcome to your opinion but I think that it's too much to ask. What happens if you ask for a payment to be processed tomorrow but the correspondent in Afghanistan (for example) unexpectedly raises their fees by £50. Who would pay that? HSBC? if that were the case then they probably wouldn't take that business anymore.

How can mobile operators provide roaming in Afghanistan then?

You grossly underestimate banking industry even in the third world. Exchange rates can change unexpectedly. There is absolutely no reason for charges in USD (or any hard currency) to change suddenly.

Ballard

You seriously expect HSBC to keep up to date with the charge structure of every single bank in the world? That's impossible. Some banks charge to process receipt of funds. If I want t pay money to a tin pot bank in Grenada how would HSBC be expected to know their fee structure? Do you know how many banks there are in the world?

There will be a cost to HSBC for transfers between HSBC bank accounts worldwide. It's just that as part of their service they do not pass this onto their customers.

I have no idea why you've brought mobile operators or exchange rates into the equation. Banks do change their fee structures. $50 was an exaggeration but they do change. In the west these changes are advised in advance but this isn't the case for every country. That was the point that I was trying to make.

grumbler

Ballard wrote: »

You seriously expect HSBC to keep up to date with the charge structure of every single bank in the world?
That's impossible.

Not "every single". Only those that it has business relations with. I don't see why banking business is different from any other international business.

Some banks charge to process receipt of funds.

Thank you for telling me this - I was the first to say this earlier in this thread. This charge is responsibility of the the recipient to check. When receiving transfers from abroad I selected the bank that I wanted to get the money to.

If I want t pay money to a tin pot bank in Grenada how would HSBC be expected to know their fee structure? Do you know how many banks there are in the world?

I don't know and don't need to. Neither does HSBC. For sending money to Grenada it needs business relations only with one bank in this country and it's not a rocket science to know how much this bank charges for receiving funds and for making a transfer within Granada.
If another intermediary bank is involved between HSBC and Granada, this makes no difference as all charges are transparent and predictable.

There will be a cost to HSBC for transfers between HSBC bank accounts worldwide. It's just that as part of their service they do not pass this onto their customers.

Obviously it's a predictable and small amount if they can afford not to pass it.

I have no idea why you've brought mobile operators or exchange rates into the equation. Banks do change their fee structures.

So do mobile operators. That's why I brought them - as an example.

$50 was an exaggeration but they do change. In the west these changes are advised in advance but this isn't the case for every country. That was the point that I was trying to make.

Very moot point.
Businesses work the same way in all countries. If the local currency is volatile, some prices just get quoted in hard currencies.

Ballard

Sorry. I may have got the wrong end of the stick. Are you saying that you're okay with fees being deducted by the beneficiary bank for receipt of funds? I get the distinct impression that the op wouldn't be happy with that situation but you may be right.

To get charged £4 to make an international payment is pretty good going. To expect this to cover all charges by three banks is optimistic.

grumbler

Ballard wrote: »

Sorry. I may have got the wrong end of the stick. Are you saying that you're okay with fees being deducted by the beneficiary bank for receipt of funds?

At least these fees can be predicted by the customers - unlike the fees of intermediary banks.

HSBC wrote:

...charges may also be applied by other banks used to send the payment. These charges are not within our control and may be deducted from the payment.

Some unknown and unpredictable charges that may be applied or may be not.

I am not saying that this is HSBC only. The point is that this is wrong and needs changing.

To get charged £4 to make an international payment is pretty good going. To expect this to cover all charges by three banks is optimistic.

This is exactly what some customers get actually charged.

Ballard

The obvious answer would be for HSBC to charge enough initially to cover any fees that they might incur. It might cost £40 but at least we'd all have the comfort that the full amount would reach the beneficiary.

Thrugelmir

grumbler wrote: »

They know perfectly how money is routed. It's not a rocket science to negotiate or simply find out the relevant charges of the intermediary banks which services they use.

Why should they? There's 5,441 commercial banks in the USA. :eek:

Thrugelmir

StopBankRipOff wrote: »

My bank only delivered $344 to the recipient !

Your bank wasn't responsible for the delivery. Purely the transmission.

You've no grounds for complaint. Terms of trade are perfectly clear if one bothers to read them.

grumbler

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Why should they? There's 5,441 commercial banks in the USA. :eek:

See posts #33 and #34 above?

"which services they use" was a clue. Surely HSBS don't use service of all 5,441 banks in USA because they simply don't need that much of 'service' in one country.

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Terms of trade are perfectly clear...

"may also be applied by other banks used to send the payment. These charges are not within our control and may be deducted" - doesn't look "clear" to me in the slightest, let alone "perfectly".
The only what is clear is that whatever amount I send it is possible that the recipient gets nothing.

darkidoe

HSBC UK has a small charge for overseas money being transferred into a UK bank account as well. I assume this is standard practice across industry. Best way to avoid charges would be to transfer the cash yourself physically I suppose but that would be too troublesome hence the charge.