Help preventing Bank Rip-off When Sending money Overseas ?

grumbler

Goldiegirl wrote: »

I'm sure there are rules and regulations abut fairness in the USA - maybe you need to go to HSBC Bank USA's website and check what they say about charges levied on their customers for foreign payments inwards. If the charge of $25 is not clear, then you'd need to complain to HSBC Bank USA...... although I'm not sure you'd get very far as you are not their customer.

That's the point that you missed.
The recipient isn't their customer either.

StopBankRipOff

Goldiegirl,

Exactly as grumbler stated.

My bank's US branch is a sub-contractor of my bank.
If the US branch need paying $25 for their work by their employer/principle, then they need to charge my bank $25.

But they are not entitled to take $25 from my payment without my prior notification and consent.

Goldiegirl

Yes, I must admit when I originally read the post I took it that the person you were sending the money to banked at HSBC Bank USA, rather than HSBC Bank USA being the routing bank.


However, the essence of what I was saying still stands


You personally have not had $25 debited to your bank account - it is the recipient who is $25 down.


Have you looked at HSBC USA's terms and conditions ? Does it say anything about a fee of $25 for routing the payment?


If not, any complaint should be made to HSBC USA - Perhaps you could ask HSBC UK to pass your complaint on to them?

StopBankRipOff wrote: »

My bank told me that I was advised that overseas parties might take fees from the payment, and I agreed to this option.

But ultimately, you WERE told that overseas parties might take fees from the payment, and HSBC USA is an overseas party.

Goldiegirl

StopBankRipOff wrote: »

If the US branch need paying $25 for their work by their employer/principle, then they need to charge my bank $25.

.

Then your bank would pass the fee on to you, and would debit your account with the £ equivalent of $25, and you'd still be upset, possibly even more so!

StopBankRipOff

GoldieGirl,
You seem to be completely missing the point.

1) I object to not being told about the $25 fee in advance.
If I had been pre-notified of the $25 fee, there would be no problem.
Instead, I was mislead by my bank into thinking that the fee would be £4, and not £4 plus $25.

2) I have no relationship with the US branch whatsoever.
The US branch had no right (to my mind) to steal $25 from the payment they were processing as a sub-contractor of my bank.
I paid my bank to deliver $369 to the recipient.

If my bank, or my bank's subcontractor, took a previously unspecified $25 out of my payment before passing it on, why is this not theft ? Is it not certainly unfair and misleading ?

Goldiegirl

You were told that overseas parties might take fees from the payment - and you agreed to proceed on this basis.


HSBC is an overseas party.


I can't see that its misleading because you were told that this may happen.


Unfair? That's why I'm suggesting you read HSBC USA's terms and conditions for routing payments. If no mention of a fee is made, this could be the basis for a complaint.


Theft? No. Businesses charge fees for services, that's the way of the world.


Anyway, I haven't got anything further to add, so I'll wish you a good weekend, and hope you don't let this eat away at you and spoil the weekend

StopBankRipOff

Hi GoldieGirl,

It is clear and understandable that my bank is not responsible for any deductions to the payment made by the recipient's bank (nor by agents of the recipient bank).

That is why the clause in my bank's Terms and Conditions is present - it has no control over how the recipient's bank (and agents of the recipient bank) handle the payment.

But the clause in the Terms and Conditions allows neither my own bank, nor a sub-contractor of my own bank acting for my bank, to take fees or deductions from the payment without my prior notification of those fees.

This is what is so unfair, and misleading.

This is why this practice has been banned by law specifically in the USA (for payments out of the USA) and in the Eurozone.

So why are UK banks being allowed to act in this unfair and misleading way (to my mind) ?

Ballard

You had an option of paying an extra £5 to guarantee no further charges but chose the cheaper option. Surely the mere fact that there was a choice of paying extra must have given you a good idea that deductions were likely.

HSBC make payments to every country in the world (I imagine) so will have scores of correspondents. Do you expect them to keep on top of each and every one of the possible bank charges for each one? What happens when the fee rises? What if you've quoted the wrong Fedwire number and the payment can't go STP so there's an additional charge?

The correspondent bank isn't going to process a payment without charging. Did you really think that the £4 fee taken by HSBC would cover it?

grumbler

Ballard wrote: »

You had an option of paying an extra £5 to guarantee no further charges

Where is this option? I don't have an account with HSBC and see only £4 (online) or £9 (branch) on the website without any guarantee.

HSBC make payments to every country in the world (I imagine) so will have scores of correspondents. Do you expect them to keep on top of each and every one of the possible bank charges for each one?

I do. It's not a rocket science and it's 21st century, not 19th. All big companies have many business partners, and arbitrary unpredictable charges are not common.

The correspondent bank isn't going to process a payment without charging. Did you really think that the £4 fee taken by HSBC would cover it?

Yes, I do. For some countries/banks it will be just £4.
£0 for transfers within HSBC worldwide - why is £4 not enough to cover transfer within another country?

Ballard

1. It's early morning here so forgive me if I've misread but the op stated that he could have paid £9 to guarantee no further deductions.

2. Three banks were involved. HSBC UK. HSBC USA. unnamed US bank. All are expected to process a payment for a grand total of £4. Really? HSBC would need to know the charges for each of their correspondents plus every bank in the world for receiving funds.

3. You are welcome to your opinion but I think that it's too much to ask. What happens if you ask for a payment to be processed tomorrow but the correspondent in Afghanistan (for example) unexpectedly raises their fees by £50. Who would pay that? HSBC? if that were the case then they probably wouldn't take that business anymore.