Kitchen fitter help/advice urgently needed please

thescouselander

Marktheshark wrote: »

Prosecution is made under section 16 of the Electricity at Work Regulations 1989.
The penalty is £5000.
Applies to anyone employed or self employed.

Yes but what does that have to do with home insurance?

chappers

Marktheshark wrote: »

It still should have an electrical safety installation certificate, your house insurance is often invalid without it.
If he is not registered with a certified body he should not be wiring anything.
Tripping out suggests the feed is either underrated due to old wiring which is a fire risk or a leak to earth .45 and above which is also dangerous.
Ask what his competence is for electrical safety and which body he is registered to.

All of the above may well be true, but provided the circuit is correct for the appliances attached there is no requirement for notification if replacing appliances, also many kitchen fitters have competency certificates which allow them to work on the circuits in the kitchen.

tb4100 wrote: »

Should of said its on an 32 amp fuse x

Is that a completely separate circuit and not the socket ring main

beaker141 wrote: »

I've got an aeg induction hob - I've just checked , its on a 40amp breaker on its own and i think its 6mm cable to it, possibly 10mm, I cant recall.

http://www.aeg.co.uk/Products/Cooking/Hobs/Electric_hobs/HK654400FB/

Hob is 7.4kw - which with all rings drawing power suggests a draw of 30amps - that could be on top of your cooker and grill.

But then you have to take into account diversity, which basically allows for the fact that the appliances are thermostatically controlled and so won't be running at full power at any one time.
if I recall correctly diversity for a hob or cooker runs at 30% after the first 10 amps.
So in your example you would take;

7400/230=32.17amps

Take the first 10amps then 30% of the remaining 22.17amps gives a total of 16.65amps. if there is also an oven on the same circuit then you start with the combined power rating, you then add another 5amps if a socket is fitted to the cooker switch.

Even with an oven of similar rating a 32amp breaker on a 6mm cable would be fine the diversity for two 32amp appliances works out at 26.2 amps.

On Christmas day with both ovens and the hob running flat out and the doors being opened all the time you might get a trip as the circuit warms up.

Your 40 amp breaker is could well be too high a rating too, 40 amp cooker circuits were used when ovens had old heavy plate elements.
Having a breaker of too higher rating can be just as dangerous, for example the fixed cable connected to the appliance may not have a high enough capacity and could catch fire without tripping the breaker.

Also to add most single ovens are fine fitted to a socket ring, but should be protected by a 13 amp fused spur.

Questions for the OP is the grill tripping the trip when used on it's own, and is it tripping almost straight away, if so it could well be faulty also you say it tripped the lights too, was it tripping the RCD, again if so, then there is likely a short somewhere and if the hob or oven isn't causing this fault then it is likely that the grill element or control switch is faulty.

If the hob has hold down clamps then they should be fitted, but as others have said some have friction clips nowadays
.
As for the other issues, make a full list and send it to him saying you won't be paying him until the fit is finished to your satisfaction.

cddc

There are now plug and play induction hobs that can be fitted to your regular circuits.

Induction technology has moved rapidly in the last few years.

chappers

Most in fact as pointed out , even at 7.4kw that is fine on a standard 32 amp ring main, even running flat out at 32.17 amps it wouldn't trip

tb4100

Thank you all for your help really appreciate it.

I gave the fitters my list of faults it took them 4 hours to finished.

New cupboard door changed and is the wrong colour they are changing it tomorrow,new oven they are picking up and fitting tomorrow also.

I asked about the Electric and gas certificate and they said after cheque clears will send it to me !!! humm not sure if I am going to receive them. x

Kittycat1981

Have they carried out an electrical and gas test to be able to provide a certificate? Dont they usually fill in the paper work while completing the test ?


I would be dubious too. I would ask to see the certificates before any cheque was handed over.

tb4100

Kittykat I'm very dubious but again not looking forward to the confrontation why can't they just do the job properly ? X

Marktheshark

The certificate has to be given to the householder before the appliances are used.
You could be invalidating your insurance and the terms of your mortgage if you have one.
Fitting a new appliance wont solve a bad wiring issue, they will just make even more money from you.
If the breaker is tripping more than once you need a qualified electrician and do not reset the rcd until you have had a qualified electrician check the fault.
Despite urban myths, RCD do not trip for nothing, they trip because the wiring or equipment is dangerous.

I would maker it clear unless they can produce a part P certificate they wont be touching anything electrical and you will be calling an electrician to find the fault and rectify it.

PS DID YOU SAY GAS !!!
They have been at the GAS !

If they are not Gas safe qualified and registered you have to report it immediately to the authorties.

chappers

Marktheshark wrote: »

The certificate has to be given to the householder before the appliances are used.
Not true, there is no requirement to fill out a GSC for a new installation, however the installation needs to be registered with the local authority under the gas safe scheme, but there is a timescale for this and a copy should then be sent to the homeowner.
Normally for anew boiler the Benchmark section of the manual should be filled in to show that the correct commissioning has been carried out

You could be invalidating your insurance and the terms of your mortgage if you have one.
Rubbish
Fitting a new appliance wont solve a bad wiring issue, they will just make even more money from you.
How do you know the appliance isn't faulty
If the breaker is tripping more than once you need a qualified electrician and do not reset the rcd until you have had a qualified electrician check the fault.
Strictly maybe but not really practical, diagnosis by elimination is perfectly acceptable its the first thing an electrician would do
Despite urban myths, RCD do not trip for nothing, they trip because the wiring or equipment is dangerous.
They can fail though and then trip erroneously, not saying that is what is happening in this case though

I would maker it clear unless they can produce a part P certificate they wont be touching anything electrical and you will be calling an electrician to find the fault and rectify it.
Not the only way though, as long as they can show they can test to BS7671

PS DID YOU SAY GAS !!!
They have been at the GAS !

If they are not Gas safe qualified and registered you have to report it immediately to the authorities.

On the subject of the certification, if they have carried out all the other works to your satisfaction maybe give them the benefit of the doubt, but do make sure they do give you everything they should.
I know of several electricians and plumbers who withhold registering with BC until they get paid, its the one small thing they can do to ensure they are paid.

fezster

Ask to see some identification to show they are registered with an appropriate body to be able to notify the installation to building control (eg. Gas Safe). Also make a note of their id number, just in case they do not notify.