David Cameron sets out EU reform goals

Moby

It's not just about trade. Our whole security network etc is wrapped up in Europe. That's why they've got to sort out the migrant crisis. Slovenia is building razor wire fences and Sweden is re-introducing border controls.......the gift that just keeps on giving for Nigel Farage!

Thrugelmir

Generali wrote: »

If the public sector is only increasing at 1% a year then the private sector is increasing even faster.

Minimum wage / lower paid jobs are primarily in the private sector.

Aldi have recently given their store staff a 13.8% payrise. Still only £8.20 a hour.

Morrisons have given their staff a 20% payrise.

Sainsburys 4%.

and so on.

Even Government is impacted. At the lowest grade levels apprentices are receiving above 1%. To maintain parity with minimum wage levels.

Graham_Devon

Was on question time last night. Seems the panel thought Cameron had gone into the negotiation asking for hardly anything. Judging by the question time clap- o-meter the audience agreed it was all a waste of time and resources. They also wanted to know where the tough stance on immigration had vanished to.

Generali

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Minimum wage / lower paid jobs are primarily in the private sector.

Aldi have recently given their store staff a 13.8% payrise. Still only £8.20 a hour.

Morrisons have given their staff a 20% payrise.

Sainsburys 4%.

and so on.

Even Government is impacted. At the lowest grade levels apprentices are receiving above 1%. To maintain parity with minimum wage levels.

When I was young and hung out with a lot of people who would now be described as 'disadvantaged' or 'vulnerable'. In addition I had a lot of friends that were in trades of one sort or another: chefs, chippies, sparkies etc.. They weren't minimum wage fodder and were very proud, rightly, of their achievements and abilities.

There really aren't that many checkout chicks in the UK. The majority of the workforce is semi-skilled and skilled and not earning nor wanting to earn the minimum wage. They're looking up not down and they're the people that decide elections. They voted Tory in England and SNP in Scotland.

Moby

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Was on question time last night. Seems the panel thought Cameron had gone into the negotiation asking for hardly anything. Judging by the question time clap- o-meter the audience agreed it was all a waste of time and resources. They also wanted to know where the tough stance on immigration had vanished to.

Yes saw it too....Javid had a tough time didn't he. Farage is right .......you can only realistically have a tough stance on immigration if you are serious about leaving the EU. Cameron isn't seriously considering leaving the EU;). He is posturing!

CLAPTON

Moby wrote: »

It's not just about trade. Our whole security network etc is wrapped up in Europe. That's why they've got to sort out the migrant crisis. Slovenia is building razor wire fences and Sweden is re-introducing border controls.......the gift that just keeps on giving for Nigel Farage!

our security is wrapped up in our armed forces and our nuclear deterrent and the preparedness to use it. That combined with the US and France and maybe a little of Germany : none of this is anything to do the the EU but NATO based.

BobQ

Moby wrote: »

That is exactly why you should blame him! He has given no leadership. He lacks a clear vision. As you say his negotiating position and the decision to go for a referendum is so obviously defined by his need to keep his party together. The fact is this referendum is a sham; it will solve nothing. The No vote will see through the fig leaf of Cameron's posturing and the Yes vote likewise. I suppose having a referendum will mute the calls for another referendum for a time.....but with regard to practical changes it will do nothing. Leaders in Europe will posture and make public statements about how hard the negotiations are because they want to help him come across as strong in the UK.........I can 100% guarantee that Cameron will recommend a Yes vote! He will posture that he came to this judgement after hours of blood sweat and tears in negotiations but finally ........... he'll recommend Yes! Fact is he was always going to recommend Yes!

The refugee/migrant crisis seems to be far more significant as exposing the weakness of the EU to act as a union.

Also restricting EU migrants' access to in-work benefits such as tax credits is clearly discriminatory and will probably have knock on effects on British recipients of said benefits!

I agree with you, but if I were David Cameron, not showing leadership, hoping a divided party would just fall in line behind me, I doubt I would behave any differently.

The fact is that he has already said he will not stand again and whatever the outcome of a referendum it will not make one iota of difference to his lifestyle. His job is to keep the Conservative Party together and in power to secure the future for wealthy people like himself. Part of that mission is to keep enough of working population believing that his party actually cares a fig what they think. With Corbyn around he does not have to work that hard on this mission, but the EU referendum is one of the few issues that might derail him.

BobQ

Generali wrote: »

It's because you both hate Mr Cameron. He could walk on water and feed the five thousand and you'd be going on about how he got wet feet and it wasn't the right people he was feeding and it was all a pathetic stunt from old posho pig botherer.

If he manages to square the circle, which he shows every sign of doing so far, he'll do something that even Lady Thatcher couldn't achieve. You mis-underestimate* Mr Cameron at every turn. He's a rare creature: a PM who has managed to increase his majority, in fact in this case gain a majority. He's the first to do it since Maggie in 1983. He not only survived coalition Government, he came out of it stronger and more electable.


*(c) Pres GW Bush

Cannot speak for Moby but I plead guilty to the charge that I hate Thatcher (it started when she sent our armed forces to the Falklands to save her reputation). I do not hate Cameron, but I do think he is a weak leader and a front man for some very nasty ministers. He is full of contradictions:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/11/david-cameron-letter-cuts-oxfordshire

or as the Guardian puts it blissfully ignorant. I suspect you are over-estimating him.

Generali

BobQ wrote: »

Cannot speak for Moby but I plead guilty to the charge that I hate Thatcher (it started when she sent our armed forces to the Falklands to save her reputation). I do not hate Cameron, but I do think he is a weak leader and a front man for some very nasty ministers. He is full of contradictions:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/11/david-cameron-letter-cuts-oxfordshire

or as the Guardian puts it blissfully ignorant. I suspect you are over-estimating him.

He's seen off two Labour leaders so far so he's obviously doing something right.

CLAPTON

BobQ wrote: »

Cannot speak for Moby but I plead guilty to the charge that I hate Thatcher (it started when she sent our armed forces to the Falklands to save her reputation). I do not hate Cameron, but I do think he is a weak leader and a front man for some very nasty ministers. He is full of contradictions:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/11/david-cameron-letter-cuts-oxfordshire

or as the Guardian puts it blissfully ignorant. I suspect you are over-estimating him.

I thought that protecting the free democratic choice of the people of the Falklands, was worth fighting for.

Probably, people who admire the IRA supporters Corbyn/McDonnell/Abbott, will disagree.