David Cameron sets out EU reform goals

chewmylegoff

wotsthat wrote: »

I read somewhere that Cameron's demands might actually be quite easy for the EU to agree to but wouldn't be enough to convince the leave camp. Free movement was number 1, 2 and 3 on their list - without it being curtailed directly they don't need to change their minds - not that I think they would.

Curtailment of free movement would not be enough for the ideological exit vote (which is about 99.4% of the exit support). They would still demand to leave due to the madness of EU regulations relating to the shape of bananas.

Generali

Remain has its best showing so far:

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9542

Remain is on 46%, leave 38%.

Leave need 75% of don't knows to win in effect. I just don't see it. It's like the Scottish referendum: the change vote just has too much to do. Just like Yes, it's not possible for Leave to moderate their position to win over moderates on the other side. It's not possible to leave a little bit.

This status quo is obviously working to some extent. People aren't starving in the streets and the UK isn't under the jackboot of Brussels. The outcome of leaving is uncertain whereas the current position kinda works okay, even if it's not perfect.

CLAPTON

Whilst I expect that 'stay in' will win, I did think that Cameron would at least make an effort to achieve something


In effect he has asked for nothing and that is what we will get (all bar a bit of theatrical showmanship).

BobQ

While I do not blame Cameron given the divisions in his party on the EU, I do think his approach is very weak and unstatesmanlike. The referendum was largely about limiting divisions in his party and popularity. The four points are just about risk mitigation to avoid losing a referendum that he knows would be damaging in itself and also trigger another Scottish Independence vote.

Generali

CLAPTON wrote: »

Whilst I expect that 'stay in' will win, I did think that Cameron would at least make an effort to achieve something


In effect he has asked for nothing and that is what we will get (all bar a bit of theatrical showmanship).

He has asked for some symbolism plus the welfare thing. The EU I suspect will throw him a bone on welfare with a lot of compromise from the UK side. A commitment that the UK doesn't have to join the Euro just cements the real politik of the situation.

From the moment that New Labour got cold feet it was never going to happen.

Generali

BobQ wrote: »

While I do not blame Cameron given the divisions in his party on the EU, I do think his approach is very weak and unstatesmanlike. The referendum was largely about limiting divisions in his party and popularity. The four points are just about risk mitigation to avoid losing a referendum that he knows would be damaging in itself and also trigger another Scottish Independence vote.

What do you think he should be doing?

CLAPTON

Generali wrote: »

He has asked for some symbolism plus the welfare thing. The EU I suspect will throw him a bone on welfare with a lot of compromise from the UK side. A commitment that the UK doesn't have to join the Euro just cements the real politik of the situation.

From the moment that New Labour got cold feet it was never going to happen.

I rather agree


The welfare thing will amount to virtually nothing and everyone has discounted us ever joining the Euro anyway.

Thrugelmir

El_Torro wrote: »

Where is the proposal to allow the UK to have control over internal EU immigration?

The answer he'll receive from the other member states is a certainty.

If people want out of Europe they'll vote to do so on this topic when the referendum is held.

The UK's population is aging and younger people are welcome. So there's a balance to be struck.

Masomnia

Generali wrote: »

Remain has its best showing so far:

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9542

Remain is on 46%, leave 38%.

Leave need 75% of don't knows to win in effect. I just don't see it. It's like the Scottish referendum: the change vote just has too much to do. Just like Yes, it's not possible for Leave to moderate their position to win over moderates on the other side. It's not possible to leave a little bit.

This status quo is obviously working to some extent. People aren't starving in the streets and the UK isn't under the jackboot of Brussels. The outcome of leaving is uncertain whereas the current position kinda works okay, even if it's not perfect.

I don't see it either. I wonder if the out vote are missing a trick, because in fact the 'status quo' isn't an option. We don't know what Britain's relationship with the EU will look like, so it cuts both ways imho.

CLAPTON

Thrugelmir wrote: »

The answer he'll receive from the other member states is a certainty.

If people want out of Europe they'll vote to do so on this topic when the referendum is held.

The UK's population is aging and younger people are welcome. So there's a balance to be struck.

Interesting to reflect that (at least in London and the SE) it is the young that are suffering from the massive house price inflation, largely caused by the higher population (due in large part to immigration).
The inability to afford a family property in London, for the 25-40 age group has a serious quality of life impact : some would say that the huge availabilty of coffe bars, clubs and wonderful restaurants doesn't really compensate.


However for older people and the young outside London and the SE things may seem different.


We have no shortage of young people as evidenced by the lack of wage inflation and the vast number of minimum wage jobs.