David Cameron sets out EU reform goals

Generali

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Minimum wage perhaps, yes. Public sector only 1%.

If the public sector is only increasing at 1% a year then the private sector is increasing even faster.

Why is it on the internet that people only earn the minimum wage, work in the public sector or are bankers? The median income is c. £27,000 a year. That's 84 hours a week at the minimum wage.

mrginge

martinsurrey wrote: »

You have to follow a lot of EU law to be in the EU free trade area, If we leave Europe but want to stay in the free trade area (and I don't think anyone wants us to leave that), our bananas will still have to be straight, but we wont have a say when they decide what shade of orange our oranges have to be, we'll just have to abide by their decision.

We will also have to pay to be apart of the EEA, Norway pays without getting a say, and is subject to 21% of all EU law, including the free movement of people, which seems to be the one that a lot of anti EU care about.

Are saying is that the EU will not negotiate any terms in order for them to gain access to the 5th (?) biggest economy in the world?

Did they impose their trading terms on the U.S., China, BRICS or did they negotiate to a mutually beneficial position?

martinsurrey

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Minimum wage perhaps, yes. Public sector only 1%.

my sister in law got a 8% pay rise as a teacher last year, she moved 1 point up the scale and got a 1% rise on that.

don't confuse band movements with total pay rises. while a public sector worker at the top of their bands got 1% a great great many got much much more.

martinsurrey

mrginge wrote: »

Are saying is that the EU will not negotiate any terms in order for them to gain access to the 5th (?) biggest economy in the world?

Did they impose their trading terms on the U.S., China, BRICS or did they negotiate to a mutually beneficial position?

We're talking about the free trade area, it means we can export items to the EU without much trouble as we have the same laws around consumer law and regulation, have you tried to export dairy milk chocolate to America? You'll get sued by Nestle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area

they will negotiate terms, but while they would be trying to access the 5th largest economy in the world we would be trying to access the largest trading block in the world (8 times larger than the UK), so who has the stronger position to define terms?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

mrginge

Generali wrote: »

Labour would have lost the last election even if they took every single seat in Scotland so TBH I don't think it had much of an impact.

I think that Mr Corbyn's election was largely the result of putting the vote out to the membership who are quite a long way to the left of the MPs it appears.

I expect the plan next is to re-position the MPs to closer to the party as a whole. I don't see that ending well for the Labour party at the next election. Indeed it could even deliver opposition to UKIP.

IMO a result that left labour with any shred of respectability would have made the other leadership candidates a lot more credible. There'd have been a couple of 'favoured' candidates and JC wouldn't have got anywhere near the ballot paper.

Off topic anyway...

wotsthat

Generali wrote: »

If the public sector is only increasing at 1% a year then the private sector is increasing even faster.

Why is it on the internet that people only earn the minimum wage, work in the public sector or are bankers? The median income is c. £27,000 a year. That's 84 hours a week at the minimum wage.

It's the British way to be generally downbeat. I've a Spanish friend who says only Brits respond to the question 'how are you?' with 'not bad' or 'could be worse'.

The media don't help. If millions of pounds fell from the sky and all we had to do was catch it the BBC would interview someone who missed out because they were blind and had no arms.

mrginge

martinsurrey wrote: »

We're talking about the free trade area, it means we can export items to the EU without much trouble as we have the same laws around consumer law and regulation, have you tried to export dairy milk chocolate to America? You'll get sued by Nestle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area

Are you saying that China is not allowed to export chocolate to America because they sell products into the EU?

they will negotiate terms, but while they would be trying to access the 5th largest economy in the world we would be trying to access the largest trading block in the world (8 times larger than the UK), so who has the stronger position to define terms?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

Are the EU going to stop us from negotiating deals with other trading blocks?

If their imposed terms for us to buy Peugeots is so disadvantageous to us, won't we just go and buy Fords instead?

Generali

mrginge wrote: »

IMO a result that left labour with any shred of respectability would have made the other leadership candidates a lot more credible. There'd have been a couple of 'favoured' candidates and JC wouldn't have got anywhere near the ballot paper.

Maybe. There weren't exactly any compelling candidates standing and TBH I can't think of anyone that was obviously missing from the list. It's not like in the 80s when Labour had Dennis Healy, Richard Crossman and Tony Benn standing in the wings.

I don't think that the result in Scotland made many members' minds up because I don't think that many think strategically.

I think it was Mr Corbyn because who else? At least Mr Blair for all his faults promised and gained Government. None of the lot that stood in the last leadership election were real leaders. No charisma, no rallying cries, no point in voting for them.

Mr Corbyn at least offered something different even if it's a difference that I suspect will get hammered in 4.5 years time, assuming he lasts that long.

mrginge wrote: »

Off topic anyway...

Yes it is but it beats trying to justify EU reform with a bunch of people that just want out of the EU at all costs.

Moby

Generali wrote: »

Moby wrote: »

!!!!!! has that got to do with the EU? It's just about you hating Tories.

It's funny really. Labour have had one PM elected in the last 40 years and 2 in the last half century, 3 since the war. They have a set of policies that people don't want and can only finance themselves because the union movement props them up. Basically the only thing they have going for themselves electorally is that they're better than the Lib Dems.

They've been found out in Scotland and I do rather wonder if the clock is ticking in England too. Who does Labour represent these days except public sector junior managers?

What on earth are you banging on about now. The thread is about Cameron and Europe and that's what I commented on. That's what it's got to do with the EU! Bernard Jenkin made this comment :-
I thought/assumed you knew about it:-
http://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/14024489.MP_Bernard_Jenkin_criticises_Prime_Minister_over_EU/

martinsurrey

mrginge wrote: »

Are you saying that China is not allowed to export chocolate to America because they sell products into the EU?

No I'm saying that if Nestle wants to sell chocolate in the UK for 10 x more than in Germany, you can go and buy them in Germany and resell them in the UK, eventually they'll align the prices, you cant do that between UK/US as there isnt a free trade block.

The US could also unilaterally impose a new requirement on importing chocolate at the drop of a hat, say that it needs to contain X or not contain Y, or you cant import it. This could effectively block our exports. that cant happen inside the EU, as long as it meets EU law, its free to cross the borders tariff free.

mrginge wrote: »

Are the EU going to stop us from negotiating deals with other trading blocks?

No but again, do you think we as the 5th largest world economy are going to get a better deal with other trading blocks than the largest (being the EU)?

mrginge wrote: »

If their imposed terms for us to buy Peugeots is so disadvantageous to us, won't we just go and buy Fords instead?

See above, I'm not saying its impossible, its like asking if Bristol would be better off outside the EU and the UK, where it could negotiate its own trade deals, how much power would it wield in comparison to the UK/EU as a whole.