David Cameron sets out EU reform goals

Generali

CLAPTON wrote: »

Interesting to reflect that (at least in London and the SE) it is the young that are suffering from the massive house price inflation, largely caused by the higher population (due in large part to immigration).
The inability to afford a family property in London, for the 25-40 age group has a serious quality of life impact : some would say that the huge availabilty of coffe bars, clubs and wonderful restaurants doesn't really compensate.


However for older people and the young outside London and the SE things may seem different.


We have no shortage of young people as evidenced by the lack of wage inflation and the vast number of minimum wage jobs.

Real wages are rising at c3% a year.

Mistermeaner

CLAPTON wrote: »

I rather agree


The welfare thing will amount to virtually nothing and everyone has discounted us ever joining the Euro anyway.

I would prefer wholesale welfare change rather than specific against migrants.

2 birds 1 stone

Generali

Mistermeaner wrote: »

I would prefer wholesale welfare change rather than specific against migrants.

2 birds 1 stone

Agree.

I'd start off by getting rid of housing benefit and wrapping it into other benefits. It's not like we insist that many other benefits are spent on something specific: we don't give food stamps or electricity vouchers. What's so special about the rent?

BobQ

Generali wrote: »

What do you think he should be doing?

As I said I do not blame DC for doing what he is doing: he has little option. History will probably judge his re-negotiation as weak, but he has no real choice given his alleged views. If he was opposed to remaining in the EU he could probably have been more hardline. Like Wilson he is dealing with the party politics and not the substantive issue.

As others have said, in Parliament and the usually supportive press, the objectives are phrased so that it is very unlikely we cannot agree most of them. Personally I suspect he and the major national leaders have already agreed a narrative that enables him to huff and puff and them to appear sympathetic short of any real movement. I think its a bit of a sham like 1975. A bit like the Eurosausage episode on Yes Minister!

CLAPTON

Generali wrote: »

Real wages are rising at c3% a year.

possibly just enough to encourage some productivity improvements
and with benefit reform we would expect to see falling real wages

no need for another 10-20% increase in London house prices

CLAPTON

Mistermeaner wrote: »

I would prefer wholesale welfare change rather than specific against migrants.

2 birds 1 stone

benefit reform will undoubtedly help but I doubt it will lead to higher housing standards in London for young people

Thrugelmir

CLAPTON wrote: »

We have no shortage of young people as evidenced by the lack of wage inflation and the vast number of minimum wage jobs.

Think you'll find many low paid jobs such as those at B&Q are being performed by the over 55's. I know someone who lost their job when the Didcot B power station was closed. No demand for people with such engineering skills in the current market. So that's where he works now. Money is money. Whatever your previous career history.

BobQ

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34803222

The narrative begins.........

Moby

BobQ wrote: »

While I do not blame Cameron given the divisions in his party on the EU, I do think his approach is very weak and unstatesmanlike. The referendum was largely about limiting divisions in his party and popularity. The four points are just about risk mitigation to avoid losing a referendum that he knows would be damaging in itself and also trigger another Scottish Independence vote.

That is exactly why you should blame him! He has given no leadership. He lacks a clear vision. As you say his negotiating position and the decision to go for a referendum is so obviously defined by his need to keep his party together. The fact is this referendum is a sham; it will solve nothing. The No vote will see through the fig leaf of Cameron's posturing and the Yes vote likewise. I suppose having a referendum will mute the calls for another referendum for a time.....but with regard to practical changes it will do nothing. Leaders in Europe will posture and make public statements about how hard the negotiations are because they want to help him come across as strong in the UK.........I can 100% guarantee that Cameron will recommend a Yes vote! He will posture that he came to this judgement after hours of blood sweat and tears in negotiations but finally ........... he'll recommend Yes! Fact is he was always going to recommend Yes!

The refugee/migrant crisis seems to be far more significant as exposing the weakness of the EU to act as a union.

Also restricting EU migrants' access to in-work benefits such as tax credits is clearly discriminatory and will probably have knock on effects on British recipients of said benefits!

Generali

Moby wrote: »

That is exactly why you should blame him! He has given no leadership. He lacks a clear vision. As you say his negotiating position and the decision to go for a referendum is so obviously defined by his need to keep his party together. The fact is this referendum is a sham; it will solve nothing. The No vote will see through the fig leaf of Cameron's posturing and the Yes vote likewise. I suppose having a referendum will mute the calls for another referendum for a time.....but with regard to practical changes it will do nothing. Leaders in Europe will posture and make public statements about how hard the negotiations are because they want to help him come across as strong in the UK.........I can 100% guarantee that Cameron will recommend a Yes vote! He will posture that he came to this judgement after hours of blood sweat and tears in negotiations but finally ........... he'll recommend Yes! Fact is he was always going to recommend Yes!

The refugee/migrant crisis seems to be far more significant as exposing the weakness of the EU to act as a union.

Also restricting EU migrants' access to in-work benefits such as tax credits is clearly discriminatory and will probably have knock on effects on British recipients of said benefits!

It's because you both hate Mr Cameron. He could walk on water and feed the five thousand and you'd be going on about how he got wet feet and it wasn't the right people he was feeding and it was all a pathetic stunt from old posho pig botherer.

If he manages to square the circle, which he shows every sign of doing so far, he'll do something that even Lady Thatcher couldn't achieve. You mis-underestimate* Mr Cameron at every turn. He's a rare creature: a PM who has managed to increase his majority, in fact in this case gain a majority. He's the first to do it since Maggie in 1983. He not only survived coalition Government, he came out of it stronger and more electable.


*(c) Pres GW Bush