Reasonable Expenses

Poppie68

As a fellow grandparent I am so jealous of the time you are able to spend looking after yourself grandson, we have a 2.5year old precious granddaughter but due to ill health I can only ever spend short periods of time alone with her.

You sound like a very reasonable person who is also taking the feelings of the mother into account, with regards to her being employed she wasn't obligated to work as a single parent of a child under school age so she obviously isn't a slackers who wants to exsist on benefits. It maybe she is struggling to cope at the moment with 2 little ones and maybe back at work?


I'm maybe going against the grain but I don't agree that the child should be separated from mother and sibling, I was one of those children and it devastated my childhood and I have never too this day had a close relationship with my siblings.

Your son seems to be doing well in regards to his child and you seem to be a fantastic source of support for all of them.. Maybe 50/50 custody is the way to go with regards to finances,care and not alienating the mother?

foolofbeans

Hope this works:

RiaMac wrote: »

How on earth would you have the slightest idea of which if any, benefits she has received?I saw another thread you had started that mentioned tax credits
Had you read my previous posts you would know she was working, I was looking after my grandson and he never attended any private nursery!So why have you said in your OP "

RiaMac wrote: »

We buy all my grandson's clothes, pay his (state) nursery fees

I provided these figures in order to work out a reasonable amount, not for you or anyone else to stand in judgement.If you post on an internet forum then people will give an opinion.
Why is that your business? If you had read the posts you would already know the answer.I have read the posts which is why I asked who actually looks after your grandson. You say your son has him two nights a week but then state YOU look after him the two nights as well as during the week.
Now you are just sounding jealous! Yep, I wish I had a son who pays nothing towards living costs and very little for his child
No, you need to stop being so judgemental. I'm sorry it comes across that way. It is quite judgemental of me to point out the facts.
What is shocking is your lack of mathematical skills. He contributes £40 pw to the household. I then choose to give him money to go out if I can afford it. It is not written in stone that he will receive the £30 to go out so he cannot rely on this money, although he generally does get it. My choice! What is even more shocking is your ability to make so many assumptions. Assuming a 30 hour week as you have, assuming NMW at age 21+ as you have, assuming he would have been on that rate for the full year and assuming he is not a first year apprentice as you have, does indeed lead you to assume his wages to be £210 pw (£6.70 x 30hrs). In reality the £6.70 NMW was only introduced in October 2015. NMW rate at October 2014 was £6.50ph for 21+. Using your assumptions his wage would have been £195 pw for the majority of the year 1/10/14 - 30/09/15 (£6.50 x 30)
However, your assumptions are completely and entirely wrong. I will not explain how, you don’t need to know, just assume I am right!Of course if somebody on the internet says they are right I should just believe it. Having checked and even an apprentice gets the min wage over 21. I did a check on the CSA calculator that you said suggest £15 maintenance to be paid and that came up with £14 a week maintenance for an income of £175 so it must be more than that? So in fact close to the £200 I mentioned previously.
He has been pay ing money but we were not sure if the amount would be considered as reasonable, hence the OP being called Reasonable Expenses!I apologise if your son has already paid maintenance. However the recommended amounts are a MINIMUM and I would hope any parent would encourage their child to pay as much as they can for their child.
That says a whole lot more about you than me. I would never, ever take more than half of my child’s income from them. And who said the money would be spent on partying?I'm proud that I encouraged my child to not rely on benefits. When they got a job the board stayed at £30 a week which barely covered the cost of another adult in the house. I certainly didn't then give them the money back as pocket money
Please read the posts again and let me know exactly where this comment was made.It was me that said your son may not be able to afford a car as he can't pay towards his living costs or for his child. A car is a luxury not a right.
I hope he is. He made one mistake by becoming a daddy so young but I will not let that stop him from being a young man who can enjoy the company of other young people.
You are stopping him from being a man. A man stands up to his responsibilities and certainly doesn't get pocket money off his mommy.

NewShadow

foolofbeans wrote: »

Hope this works:

The nested comments were very clever (I'm going to have to play around with that), but the commentary came across (to me) as a little mean spirited.

Just sharing my opinion as a member of a public forum.

RiaMac_2

How on earth would you have the slightest idea of which if any, benefits she has received?I saw another thread you had started that mentioned tax credits. I have not started another thread regarding tax credits.

Had you read my previous posts you would know she was working, I was looking after my grandson and he never attended any private nursery!So why have you said in your OP "
Quote: 
Originally Posted by RiaMac 
 We buy all my grandson's clothes, pay his (state) nursery fees

State nursery fees are completely different to private nursery fees. State fees are only around £2.50 a week which covers snack and a piece of fruit and/or milk when they leave nursery after about 2 1/2 hours.

I provided these figures in order to work out a reasonable amount, not for you or anyone else to stand in judgement.If you post on an internet forum then people will give an opinion. And you are welcome to it. I would have expected that sort of reply though had I actually asked “what do you think?” Instead I was looking for help which others have kindly provided me with.

Why is that your business? If you had read the posts you would already know the answer.I have read the posts which is why I asked who actually looks after your grandson. You say your son has him two nights a week but then state YOU look after him the two nights as well as during the week. Look at #1 again. It may not have been worded as clearly as you wanted it to be but it does quite clearly state “Up until she went on maternity leave 3 months ago I looked after my grandson every day as well as the usual 2 nights, while she worked full time”. The next part may also not have been very clear but Daddy has his son for 2 full nights and sometimes 2 full days if he has days off which suit her, now she is on maternity leave. I have my grandson another 2 nights (so he stays at least 4 nights a week away from his mum). I looked after him EVERY day while mum and dad were working. In reality I had one day off a week.

Now you are just sounding jealous! Yep, I wish I had a son who pays nothing towards living costs and very little for his child. Again look at #1 where it says, again clearly, “We buy all my grandson's clothes, pay his (state) nursery fees along with any trips etc, look after him and take him wherever he needs to go as she does not have a car”. The term “we” was in respect of me and my son.

No, you need to stop being so judgemental. I'm sorry it comes across that way. It is quite judgemental of me to point out the facts. What facts? So far you have only given your opinions and been given clarification on one other point.

What is shocking is your lack of mathematical skills. He contributes £40 pw to the household. I then choose to give him money to go out if I can afford it. It is not written in stone that he will receive the £30 to go out so he cannot rely on this money, although he generally does get it. My choice! What is even more shocking is your ability to make so many assumptions. Assuming a 30 hour week as you have, assuming NMW at age 21+ as you have, assuming he would have been on that rate for the full year and assuming he is not a first year apprentice as you have, does indeed lead you to assume his wages to be £210 pw (£6.70 x 30hrs). In reality the £6.70 NMW was only introduced in October 2015. NMW rate at October 2014 was £6.50ph for 21+. Using your assumptions his wage would have been £195 pw for the majority of the year 1/10/14 - 30/09/15 (£6.50 x 30)
However, your assumptions are completely and entirely wrong. I will not explain how, you don’t need to know, just assume I am right!Of course if somebody on the internet says they are right I should just believe it. Having checked and even an apprentice gets the min wage over 21. I did a check on the CSA calculator that you said suggest £15 maintenance to be paid and that came up with £14 a week maintenance for an income of £175 so it must be more than that? So in fact close to the £200 I mentioned previously. Wrong yet again. Why must he earn over £175pw? This time and for further clarification, he has surprisingly not always been 21 years old, therefore a lower rate would have been paid at some point in the year anyway. He started his apprenticeship just over a year ago and was in his first year of it until very recently. Up until October 2015 people in this category received £2.73 ph. Therefore your assumption that he works 30 hours a week could work out at around £82 pw. As in every part of life you do not tell someone they are wrong unless you are in full possession of all the facts and are 100% positive there is no margin for error. Granted there is a big jump once he reached 21 and was no longer a first year apprentice but as I have said both these events only happened recently.

He has been pay ing money but we were not sure if the amount would be considered as reasonable, hence the OP being called Reasonable Expenses!I apologise if your son has already paid maintenance. However the recommended amounts are a MINIMUM and I would hope any parent would encourage their child to pay as much as they can for their child. Of course I would, but for mum to know that his wage is so low and to ask for more than half of it plus never buy clothes, pay (state) nursery fees etc and still receive all the child benefits and tax credits speaks volumes about how much he cares, provides and looks after his child. She had been reasonable up until she became pregnant with baby no. 2. Mum was very ill throughout this pregnancy and my son did not want to upset her and the baby so he remained silent until now. BTW if you use the calculator it asks how many nights a week the child stays with the other parent, we truthfully answered over 3 nights a week which worked out at the flat rate of £7 pw. He sometimes works part time in another job but he chose to take the earnings into consideration for the full year which took him up to about £15.

That says a whole lot more about you than me. I would never, ever take more than half of my child’s income from them. And who said the money would be spent on partying?I'm proud that I encouraged my child to not rely on benefits. When they got a job the board stayed at £30 a week which barely covered the cost of another adult in the house. I certainly didn't then give them the money back as pocket money. I do not understand your comment "which barely covered the cost of another adult in the house" surely there were the same amount of adults, you didn't just inherit another adult from somewhere else. Was this comment referring to you maybe losing out on benefits when your child actually started earning a wage? That would make sense in a roundabout way.
I do not consider that as pocket money I consider it to be an amount I am willing to give to my son in order for him to have a reasonable balance between being a very hands on daddy, a very hard working young man and a great help around the house.

Please read the posts again and let me know exactly where this comment was made.It was me that said your son may not be able to afford a car as he can't pay towards his living costs or for his child. A car is a luxury not a right. Again look at #1 where it says “At the moment he has a small car and all the expense that comes with that to pay including the loan for it (he needs the car to get to and from work and also to pick up and drop off his son). This to me is a necessity and not a luxury. Without the car he would have no job, mum would only get £7 a week maintenance, grandson would get next to nothing from my son and he would need to be on Job Seekers Allowance or whatever this benefit is called now, just as your eldest child was.

I hope he is. He made one mistake by becoming a daddy so young but I will not let that stop him from being a young man who can enjoy the company of other young people.

You are stopping him from being a man. A man stands up to his responsibilities and certainly doesn't get pocket money off his mommy.
My son is a real man who provides for his son, works extremely hard for a pittance of a wage and is given money by me, not because he has asked for it but because I think he deserves it. Again my choice.

BTW none of your remarks have added anything of any value to my original, legitimate question of What are reasonable expenses?

If you have any further remarks to make then PM them to me as I am aware that many people on this forum may be getting fed up seeing these extremely long texts being posted so often.

Jagraf

This thread is starting to look like a rainbow

foolofbeans

NewShadow wrote: »

The nested comments were very clever (I'm going to have to play around with that), but the commentary came across (to me) as a little mean spirited.
Just sharing my opinion as a member of a public forum.

I couldn't actually figure out how to multi-quote so had to copy and paste.
Taken on board that the comments seem a little mean spirited. I do feel though that the OP has been slightly misleading in the income and outgoings she has mentioned. Which of course will give the answers that she wants.

RiaMac_2

Thank you Poppie68. I feel the same but no-one knows anything much about the brand new baby's dad except he is very flash, has been busy with the ladies and is not around all the time. When he is there I have to give credit where it is due, he is very good with my grandson and my grandson really likes him too. It really is early days but if there was a time where she could not look after both children I would happily look after the brand new half sister too. Don't know what my son would immediately think though! I would hope that he was of the same opinion as us. Still, we'll deal with the situation as it is now and be prepared for any other problems that may come along. I honestly hope her recent behaviour is just due to her last pregnancy, but only time will tell.

foolofbeans

RiaMac wrote: »

How on earth would you have the slightest idea of which if any, benefits she has received?I saw another thread you had started that mentioned tax credits. I have not started another thread regarding tax credits.My apologies for not being clear - you have another thread on the same subject. You actually mention she receives child benefit and tax credits further down in this post
State nursery fees are completely different to private nursery fees. State fees are only around £2.50 a week which covers snack and a piece of fruit and/or milk when they leave nursery after about 2 1/2 hours. For such a paltry sum why include it? You haven't included buying a book, toy or juice which are about the same amount.
I provided these figures in order to work out a reasonable amount, not for you or anyone else to stand in judgement.You gave incorrect figures though. Your son had a low income but now has a proper wage and should be assessed on that.
I would have expected that sort of reply though had I actually asked “what do you think?” Instead I was looking for help which others have kindly provided me with.I am truly sorry that my comments come across as mean but I do think you are trying to fool everybody with incorrect info and possibly fooling yourself by supporting your son when he is now a grown adult with a dependent.
The next part may also not have been very clear but Daddy has his son for 2 full nights and sometimes 2 full days if he has days off. I have my grandson another 2 nights (so he stays at least 4 nights a week away from his mum). I looked after him EVERY day while mum and dad were working. In reality I had one day off a week. I'm probably being really dim but wasn't grandchild in nursery? And daddy looks after him 2 days a week? Why would you look after grandchild when the mum is not at work?That's not a judgement on you looking after your grandchild - you're a diamond for doing so but I find it odd that the parents aren't looking after their child.
What facts? So far you have only given your opinions and been given clarification on one other point. Indeed it is just my opinion. Interestingly others have given similar opinions on the other thread but you have chosen to not answer them.
Why must he earn over £175pw? This time and for further clarification, he has surprisingly not always been 21 years old, therefore a lower rate would have been paid at some point in the year anyway. He started his apprenticeship just over a year ago and was in his first year of it until very recently. Up until October 2015 people in this category received £2.73 ph. Therefore your assumption that he works 30 hours a week could work out at around £82 pw. As in every part of life you do not tell someone they are wrong unless you are in full possession of all the facts and are 100% positive there is no margin for error. Granted there is a big jump once he reached 21 and was no longer a first year apprentice but as I have said both these events only happened recently.Actually I'm right as I wasn't commenting on what he used to earn. Assessment will be made on son's current earnings and that is what reasonable expenses should be assessed on.
Of course I would, but for mum to know that his wage is so low and to ask for more than half of it plus never buy clothes, pay (state) nursery fees of £2.50 a weeketc and still receive all the child benefits and tax creditshere is where you mention tax credits speaks volumes about how much he cares, provides and looks after his child. BTW if you use the calculator it asks how many nights a week the child stays with the other parent, we truthfully answered over 3 nights a week which worked out at the flat rate of £7 pw. He sometimes works part time in another job but he chose to take the earnings into consideration for the full year which took him up to about £15.He CHOSE to take the earnings into consideration? He would HAVE to declare those earnings - there is no choice.
I do not understand your comment "which barely covered the cost of another adult in the house" surely there were the same amount of adults, you didn't just inherit another adult from somewhere else. Was this comment referring to you maybe losing out on benefits when your child actually started earning a wage? That would make sense in a roundabout way.
I do not consider that as pocket money I consider it to be an amount I am willing to give to my son in order for him to have a reasonable balance between being a very hands on daddy, a very hard working young man and a great help around the house.
Please read the posts again and let me know exactly where this comment was made.It was me that said your son may not be able to afford a car as he can't pay towards his living costs or for his child. A car is a luxury not a right. Again look at #1 where it says “At the moment he has a small car and all the expense that comes with that to pay including the loan for it (he needs the car to get to and from work and also to pick up and drop off his son). This to me is a necessity and not a luxury. Without the car he would have no job, mum would only get £7 a week maintenance, grandson would get next to nothing from my son and he would need to be on Job Seekers Allowance or whatever this benefit is called now, just as your eldest child was.I stand corrected - indeed I know that a car is sometimes a necessity as I live in a rural area where there is a bus once a week. I commend your son on being able to get a loan for a car without having a job first and only earning £87 a week.:T
I hope he is. He made one mistake by becoming a daddy so young but I will not let that stop him from being a young man who can enjoy the company of other young people.

My son is a real man who provides for his son, works extremely hard for a pittance of a wage and is given money by me, not because he has asked for it but because I think he deserves it. Again my choice.I know it comes across as mean spirited but I feel it right to point out that your son doesn't earn a pittance any more. You have a right to give your son whatever you wish but it comes across as mollycoddling a grown man by calling him your little boy, giving him pocket money and helping him pay for his child.
BTW none of your remarks have added anything of any value to my original, legitimate question of What are reasonable expenses? I was trying to clarify the actual income your son has in order that an assessment could be made. You seem to be taking umbrage at me pointing out that the figures you are insinuating are incorrect.
If you have any further remarks to make then PM them to me as I am aware that many people on this forum may be getting fed up seeing these extremely long texts being posted so often.

I won't PM me as I'm not actually that bothered. I apologise again for any offence you may have taken but please stop skewing the information you give to people in order to get the response you want. In summary: you OFFERED to look after your grandchild a lot and seem happy to do so. Your ADULT son earns a decent wage and you don't want him spending it on his ex or his child and you support him financially so he can socialise and save for a mortgage deposit with his new girlfriend. Not quite the picture you initially painted of a poor boy tricked into fatherhood with an ex who takes you for a ride and who doesn't pay the £2.50 weekly fee of nursery.

toniq

RiaMac wrote: »

You are absolutely right Caz3121. I think that children should only be raised by someone who genuinely loves that child, rather than someone who just wants the money that comes with the child. With this in mind I honestly don't want my son to make any threats. The longer my grandson is away from her the better, as far as I am concerned.

I'm actually shocked you are going for custody as a woman a few weeks after giving birth got upset with you?

Her hormones would be everywhere and she would be suffering sleep deprivation, cut her some slack and stop being so nasty.

I actually at the beginning of all this had some sympathy for you but have seen your posts turn into a witch hunt against her.

Maybe butt out and let your son deal with this. It isn't your place.

She must be beside herself with worry on top of dealing with a new born.

Congratulations you must be really proud of yourself.

Guest101

toniq wrote: »

I'm actually shocked you are going for custody as a woman a few weeks after giving birth got upset with you?

Her hormones would be everywhere and she would be suffering sleep deprivation, cut her some slack and stop being so nasty.

I actually at the beginning of all this had some sympathy for you but have seen your posts turn into a witch hunt against her.

Maybe butt out and let your son deal with this. It isn't your place.

She must be beside herself with worry on top of dealing with a new born.

Congratulations you must be really proud of yourself.

It's nothing to do with that, and everything to do with the childs welfare.


If the mother, for whatever reason, cannot look after the child, it is in the childs best interest to live with people who can.