MSE News: Parking campaigner fails to challenge 'excessive' charge at Supreme Court

Cornucopia

Some care needs to be taken here not to assume that when elements to form a contract are chosen prior to formalisation, that is not necessarily the same as the contract being retrospective.

E.g. You choose a car, test drive it, ask for confirmation of fuel consumption & road tax band before signing the contract to buy it. However, any/all undertakings by the salesman can have contractual relevance and we wouldn't want it any other way.

Northlakes

Marktheshark wrote: »

Anyone with any brains will boycott a PE managed site now.
Those without are just going to have to be told "we told you not to go there"
In time the message will sink in, two, three hits at most and even the terminally stupid will get it.
You simply do not park your car on a PE managed site unless you want a "Fine" .
End of new advice.
Let the greedy retailers sought the mess out when their shops are empty.

Had we taken this stance in the first place....

Correct. I haven't visited a PE car park since they came to my home town. I avoid any private cark where the operator 'has form'.
When PE first appeared it was clear to me that anyone with even a little knowledge of contracts wouldn't accept those terms.

Given the way the courts are now going to treat Beavis type over-stayers any advise other than pay-up before court is incorrect in my opinion.
There is a popular misconception amongst the general public that you will get a fair hearing in a court of law.

salmosalaris

Northlakes wrote: »

Given the way the courts are now going to treat Beavis type over-stayers any advise other than pay-up before court is correct in my opinion.
.

I presume you mean incorrect ? In which case I reluctantly agree . PE could not have ordered a better judgment for that purpose .( however if nobody paid their invoices they can't posdibly take all those ticketed to court but that is no comfort if you are one of the chosen few )
I still think though marginal overstays ( 20 minutes or less ) , or longer if there are reasons beyond a driver's control may be challengable at POPLA ( we'll see ! ) along with authority to operate ( if you're willing to punt your discounted rate ) and as for paid sites these are a big unknown as to how they will be handled by POPLA .The Beavis judgments don't help PE , not that DJ's will see it that way if it gets to court .

As for numerous other PPC's they still struggle to be schedule 4 compliant .

Northlakes

Yes, incorrect I meant (and edited).

I heard of a court case today where the defendent lost and the judge stated that the Beavis judgement overruled the standard arguments used previously.

We are now in new territory and unless the government steps in the PPC's will make life for the less streetwise very costly.

The_Slithy_Tove

Cornucopia wrote: »

I can see a Court deeming that you were parked, if you were there for 15 minutes or more. I know a few car parks where you could conceivably drive around for that long before giving up and going elsewhere, but not many.

A judge dismissed a case where the driver did spend around half an hour waiting or a space - the notorious Fistral Beach (where PE got thrown out).

bazster

Marktheshark wrote: »

Anyone with any brains will boycott a PE managed site now.
Those without are just going to have to be told "we told you not to go there"
In time the message will sink in, two, three hits at most and even the terminally stupid will get it.
You simply do not park your car on a PE managed site unless you want a "Fine" .
End of new advice.
Let the greedy retailers sought the mess out when their shops are empty.

Had we taken this stance in the first place....

Indeed. When I first got involved in this malarkey my stance was that we shouldn't accord this racket any credibility by engaging with it in any way whatsoever (not even PoPLA appeals), except for angry complaints to landowners.

But the advice (and my position) got softened and now look where we are. The existence of a code of practice and an appeals service has been used in the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom, no less, to justify the legitimising of privately-issued fines. It's exactly as I predicted: by engaging with the process we have helped to legitimise it.

N.B. the last time I parked in a PE car park was when I was researching a (successful) campaign to get PE removed from said car park!

stpjg01

My daughter currently has a dispute with PE and we are awaiting a reply from POPLA. She overstayed the two hours in the car park because when she returned to her car there was a dog in distress in the next car. She is only 17 and so rang me, her mum, to ask what to do. I told her to wait by the car in case the owner arrived and got in my own car and went there. We waited and then rang the police to report. The police asked us to wait by the car for them. The owner arrived, got rather aggressive until I agreed to recind the report, so I rang the police to stand them down. However the PCs given the job rang me from their mobile and asked us to stay until they arrived. Unfortunately they were sent to an emergency and never came and my daughter went over the time limit by an hour. PE refused our claim, even with copies of the mobile calls, and the police incident number. If POPLA also reject us, does anyone think it is worth taking further, or involving the press?

trisontana

stpjg01 wrote: »

My daughter currently has a dispute with PE and we are awaiting a reply from POPLA. She overstayed the two hours in the car park because when she returned to her car there was a dog in distress in the next car. She is only 17 and so rang me, her mum, to ask what to do. I told her to wait by the car in case the owner arrived and got in my own car and went there. We waited and then rang the police to report. The police asked us to wait by the car for them. The owner arrived, got rather aggressive until I agreed to recind the report, so I rang the police to stand them down. However the PCs given the job rang me from their mobile and asked us to stay until they arrived. Unfortunately they were sent to an emergency and never came and my daughter went over the time limit by an hour. PE refused our claim, even with copies of the mobile calls, and the police incident number. If POPLA also reject us, does anyone think it is worth taking further, or involving the press?

It would best if you started your own thread instead of tagging onto this one.

Half_way

Start a new thread with the details on whos car park this was in, hint - it wont be parking eyes car park as they only infest places.

salmosalaris

Please start your own thread.
Don't rely on POPLA being sympathetic to the details of your plight , I'd guess your POPLA appeal needs a bit of meat on the carcass .