School Holiday Fines

TheSicilian

My issue is with the travel agents/flight companies/hotels. If they kept prices the same as generally as possible people wouldn't need to risk the fine by taking the children out.

Why not split holidays up, and section them differently each school so there is no 'official school holiday' but specifics to each school.

Also, if such a moral thing 'who will think of the children?' why not have a school take there inservice days' inset days whatever they're called in already set holidays? The kids are what's important right?

I was taken out of school, and it did me no harm. I think 1 or 2 weeks a year are perfectly fine and should be parental choice.

maman

TheSicilian wrote: »

My issue is with the travel agents/flight companies/hotels. If they kept prices the same as generally as possible people wouldn't need to risk the fine by taking the children out.

Why not split holidays up, and section them differently each school so there is no 'official school holiday' but specifics to each school.

Also, if such a moral thing 'who will think of the children?' why not have a school take there inservice days' inset days whatever they're called in already set holidays? The kids are what's important right?

I was taken out of school, and it did me no harm. I think 1 or 2 weeks a year are perfectly fine and should be parental choice.

We are moving towards schools having all different holidays as the government pushes the academy programme and academies have that freedom. Unfortunately this is likely to cause further chaos as parents with children in different schools potentially have a problem if the schools choose different weeks.


It's been explained before but the in-service days are holidays for children. When it was decided many years ago that teachers needed training over and above what they had at the start of their careers 5 days of holiday were allowed to be taken at the school's discretion. That's why the so called '6 weeks holiday' is no longer 6 weeks as odd days have been taken through the year. It wouldn't work to have them all at the same time as enough trainers just wouldn't be available.


I don't believe that a few days a year off school is going to cause lasting harm but as long as the rules are there we should go with them but try to get them changed. It's my view that we should return to the system of headteachers' discretion.


What I object to mostly is parents who are sending messages to their children that rules are there to be broken, that education doesn't matter, that what the school says can be ignored, that we already have 13 weeks holiday a year but taking extra is OK etc etc. That's hardly an attitude to take into adult life.

TheSicilian

So spread said training into the holidays? Fully appreciate that teachers need time off like we do, and they don't get the choice and freedom of people such as me. They also get around 2 to 3 times what the majority get if not more. So rather than have the odd dotted inset day change it up to a full week and have a day here and there in the prolonged half terms.

Explain to the children, that the difference in £200 to £800 is a huge amount to 99% of parents, - that'll give them a MSE lesson too. I think as long as it's not in a period of exams, it's not an issue.
When I was at school the last week or so of term we tended to sit around playing games anyway.

gregg1

TheSicilian wrote: »

So spread said training into the holidays? Fully appreciate that teachers need time off like we do, and they don't get the choice and freedom of people such as me. They also get around 2 to 3 times what the majority get if not more. So rather than have the odd dotted inset day change it up to a full week and have a day here and there in the prolonged half terms.

Explain to the children, that the difference in £200 to £800 is a huge amount to 99% of parents, - that'll give them a MSE lesson too. I think as long as it's not in a period of exams, it's not an issue.
When I was at school the last week or so of term we tended to sit around playing games anyway.

It has already been pointed out, training days ARE taken out of holidays!!!!

TheSicilian

The point I was trying to make is MAKE the training day in the prolonged summer holiday/half term etc etc. And remove the inset days from holiday time all together.

Minimum_2

You are very lucky - took my grandson for a family wedding and to meet his dying great grandfather - did all school work whilst there - he even got to play a digeridoo - and we received a fixed penalty notice for £60!

maman

TheSicilian wrote: »

The point I was trying to make is MAKE the training day in the prolonged summer holiday/half term etc etc. And remove the inset days from holiday time all together.

Your post has encouraged me to take to my soap box.


So, to clarify, is what you're suggesting that:

• children go to school for 195 days (instead of current 190) so there are no odd days off for inset during the year but the school terms stay the same.
• teachers have their training during the children's holidays (as they do now) but have them when schools are closed like half term, Easter, Christmas or during the summer.
• both teachers and children lose a week's holiday

I can imagine this would be popular with the parents who prioritise childcare over education as far as schools are concerned. What it wouldn't do is help the current situation where parents feel the need to take children out of school for holidays during term time. If parents don't think they can arrange a family holiday in the 13 weeks off that children have now, how would having 12 weeks make it easier?


It would be extremely unpopular with teachers. Contrary to popular opinion, teachers do work in their holidays both at school and from home but what they have now is flexibility when to do that extra work. They are professionals so, excluding the 190 days of teaching children, they to do their other work at a time which best suits them. What you're suggesting is that teachers could no longer plan their family holidays until the school told them which days they would be expected to go into work for training.


As has been explained, this couldn't always be the Monday or Friday nearest the holidays as there just aren't the trainers to go around and/or the day before or after the end of term is definitely not the best time to be planning the curriculum for the coming term.


Of course, what you might mean is:

• training days are taken out of term time so children still do 190 days but the 5 days holiday for them (when teachers are training) would be tagged on to school holidays. So, for example a half term might start on a Friday instead of the following Monday.
• teachers existing holidays are left intact but the day before/after each holiday becomes a training day.

That's close what most schools try to do now. An earlier poster did explain that the vast majority of inset days are on the first or last day of a week.( I think I've explained why it's not always practical to have training at the beginning/ends of terms.). This suits most parents as some take a day's leave on Friday (or half a day for those who finish early in my area on Fridays) and give the family a long weekend together.


I've often wondered whether it would be better to do away with inset days and copy what I've seen in the private sector. So, after school activities could be included as part of the school day and holidays made even longer as they are in private schools. Or perhaps a sign on the school door, like I've seen in shops and offices, with opening times that says the school will open at 10.00 a.m on Tuesdays to allow for staff training. Another alternative is to start half an hour earlier each day and then close to pupils on Friday lunchtimes like many factories do around here. Teachers could then get some of their planning and marking done on Friday afternoon and start to experience a weekend. I think that would be popular.

Kit1

Well said Maman. l have read and listened to this for years and wasn't going to post but l just hate all the poor me, me, me attitude.:mad: l have always said some parents would love to take their children to school when they are 4 and pick them up again when they leave school that way they wouldn't need to look after them but remember when you have a child you do need to look after them some of the time. Perhaps so of the time could be used to toilet train them or teach them to use cutlery or sit at the table extra things we now have to teach but we would rather you took a little time out to read with them only 10 mins each day - l don't think that is asking too much do you?

l work in a school and see how tired children are getting near to the end of each term especially the youngest children. l know parents have to work to pay bills etc and sort out childcare (been there done that and am still doing it).

Yes we do get more holidays than other types of jobs but tell me how many of you:-
Stay behind every day for approx 30 mins or more to clear up/look after a child who's parent is late again? (support staff do this every day)
Give up some of your lunch hour each day to sort out a problem
Give up 1/2 your lunch hour a week to support another collegue
Go back to work 4 or 5 evenings a year for 2 or 3 hours each time to support events
Give up a Saturday to help with an event at your place of work
Take a group of people away for 3 or more days and provide 24 hour care (you might get a few hours sleep but this is your only time out)
And so much more...................... and that is not just the teachers, support staff do this too.
Get into work at least 2 hours before you start
Work during your holidays, weekends and evenings
Buy your own supplies and a few extras for your collegues
ALL EXTRAS ARE UNPAID


I could say more but l think l have said enough and l am sure l will get lots of people moaning but l am used to it l get it most days :rotfl::D:rotfl:

gregg1

Kit1 wrote: »

Well said Maman. l have read and listened to this for years and wasn't going to post but l just hate all the poor me, me, me attitude.:mad: l have always said some parents would love to take their children to school when they are 4 and pick them up again when they leave school that way they wouldn't need to look after them but remember when you have a child you do need to look after them some of the time. Perhaps so of the time could be used to toilet train them or teach them to use cutlery or sit at the table extra things we now have to teach but we would rather you took a little time out to read with them only 10 mins each day - l don't think that is asking too much do you?

l work in a school and see how tired children are getting near to the end of each term especially the youngest children. l know parents have to work to pay bills etc and sort out childcare (been there done that and am still doing it).

Yes we do get more holidays than other types of jobs but tell me how many of you:-
Stay behind every day for approx 30 mins or more to clear up/look after a child who's parent is late again? (support staff do this every day)
Give up some of your lunch hour each day to sort out a problem
Give up 1/2 your lunch hour a week to support another collegue
Go back to work 4 or 5 evenings a year for 2 or 3 hours each time to support events
Give up a Saturday to help with an event at your place of work
Take a group of people away for 3 or more days and provide 24 hour care (you might get a few hours sleep but this is your only time out)
And so much more...................... and that is not just the teachers, support staff do this too.
Get into work at least 2 hours before you start
Work during your holidays, weekends and evenings
Buy your own supplies and a few extras for your collegues
ALL EXTRAS ARE UNPAID


I could say more but l think l have said enough and l am sure l will get lots of people moaning but l am used to it l get it most days :rotfl::D:rotfl:

Well said !:T

FBaby

Why do people always have to come up with extremes to defend their position?

Do I think that teachers should work harder? No, I think most do a fab job considering the pressure they work under. I think they deserve more respect and appreciation. Do I think they are hard done by and have it worse then other? No. I don't believe that all teachers don't make the best of the fact they work term time. I know quite a few, good, dedicated teachers, and yes, they do make the most of their time off. Even if some do have some work they need to do during that time, it's not 35 hours a week and flexibility to do it when it suits them IS a privilege that many other working parents don't have.

Why can't we accept that most teachers work hard and deserve their pay and break, just as much as why can't we accept that most parents do want the best for their kids and most will gain more from a family holiday, where they will get to spend quality time with their relax parents, building memories that will stay with them forever.

My family works hard, me and OH working full-time demanding jobs, the children at school (and getting the rewards of their hard work). We work for our holidays which we see as a reward for our hard work. These holidays are the things that keep us going. We plan them and then we build anticipation until we finally get to enjoy them and enjoying them we do, making us want to work hard again to enjoy the reward again. There is so much more learning behind this cycle than anything my kids will learn memorising what they need to pass an exam (and will then be long forgotten).

I believe that one of the failing of our society nowadays is children failing to learn delayed gratification and that has much more of a negative impact on their adult life than anything else.