Employer but not employed

densol_2

FBaby wrote: »

Of course, a couple earning that amount net will most likely not be entitled to any TC help towards childcare.

Ok so I'll add on say £4000 mortgage interest relief, £2000 child benefit, and £1000 council tax benefit. I don't have a clue how much income support one would receive as well.

That's £51500 NET ..... But according to salary calculator, you would have to earn £ 77000 a year before tax and NI to get that sort of money.

So OP ..... You have an excellent " income " for someone not employed !

beecher2

Maybe the OP is just venting but it backfires a little when people understate the support they are receiving. The reality of the support out there is a bit of a punch in the guts for people on average salaries, working long hours, commuting and often having caring commitments which they carry out for free.

NYM

mummytofour wrote: »

According to tax credits as a solo carer for four boys, 3 with asc, I'm not employed. Despite working 24/7 to care for them. ...

Of course you're not 'employed'...you're a parent

mummytofour wrote: »

...
The gov gives me £62 a week, which is taxable but according to tax credits I'm still not employed, so I can't get help with childcare for respite.

From an earlier post of yours, your Ex has them for two nights :think:

mummytofour wrote: »

...So after much moaning and crisis and after crises, social services, might agree to give me direct payments. I will then be an employer but still not employed.. Despite having to arrange employee things etc, which will take up even more of the 24/7 that I'm already busy.
I think I'm going to register myself as a care provider and register as self employed of course I will have three clients all with the same surname as me!

I'm a Mum to 3...I do 'employee' things also.
Manage their diary's
Chauffeur
Cook
Domestic servant....
...and a myriad of other activities that make me a Mum.

mummytofour wrote: »

..That way I will be able to get working tax credits and help with child care, what do you think?

That won't work....

mummytofour wrote: »

.Just to add im now in week four of house arrest ;-) due to my caring role, and kids of school or excluded from school.

How did you cope through the long Summer Holiday ?

mummytofour wrote: »

I saw a live in carer job recently near me for 1k per week... I'm obviously greatful for my £62 a week and so pleased my social isolation in valued so highly :rotfl::rotfl:

I do my 'job' for love...not reward.

Icequeen99

blondebubbles wrote: »

I didn't mention childcare? I said she wouldn't get WTC.

I'm interested as to why you think she wouldn't?

If she was to receive direct payments and if she was allowed to use those direct payments to pay herself (instead of a carer) then she would meet the WTC requirements.

The difference is because the direct payments would be given due to the care needs of the child and the person doing the caring would be an employee.

I have come across a couple of direct payment situations where family members have been allowed to receive the direct payments and in that case they are employees.

Nothing in the WTC regs would restrict a situation like that.

Of course, as I said above, there is no need for it in this situation. The DP payments can be used to pay carers therefore the Mother gets the respite she wants and WTC doesn't need to come into it.

(That is aside from the rest of the valid comments already made on this post)

IQ

frasersmum123

We receive DP for my son.

You cannot use DP's to employ a spouse or close relative who lives in the same household as the person who receives the DP, so it wont work.

I employ an agency, so it does take the extra stress out of being an employer, but I also have to top it up as our LA only pay the rate of the cheapest agency, which isnt always the best, so I top up the care by around £17 a week.

Icequeen99

blondebubbles wrote: »

So who would be employing her? Social services or her children? Who would deduct the necessary tax/NIC? Who would report this to HMRC?

The OP said she wanted to register as a care provider and would be considered self employed.

You can't be considered working on a commercial basis for looking after your own children regardless of their care needs.

It varies from area to area with direct payments. In some areas, there is a user support group who would run the payroll, make the payments. Social services wouldn't normally be the employer - whoever was appointed to deal with the direct payments would be . But there is nothing stopping them being employer and employee.

On the self-employed point it would be an interesting one to test - because the Mother would be in exactly the same position as any other person taking on the role and being paid for it. As I said before - i don't actually think she could claim to be self-employed for tax purposes using the normal tests. But if she got over that hurdle, i think she would pass the self-employed tax credit test because she wouldn't be different to an alternative carer in her position.

It would similar to a childminder who is only looking after their grandchildren - would they not pass the self-employed test either?

The LA will have assessed the children need X number of hours of care. They are normally hesitant to allow family members to be paid unless there is a reason why it is necessary for the family member to be the carer. It is very rare they allow it.

I can't see this arrangement would get past social services. If the Mother wants respite, then she should do that whilst paying a carer. Paying herself as a carer through direct payments and then claiming WTC to claim childcare costs to get respite just seems a pointless exercise.

IQ

Icequeen99

frasersmum123 wrote: »

We receive DP for my son.

You cannot use DP's to employ a spouse or close relative who lives in the same household as the person who receives the DP, so it wont work.

I employ an agency, so it does take the extra stress out of being an employer, but I also have to top it up as our LA only pay the rate of the cheapest agency, which isnt always the best, so I top up the care by around £17 a week.

You can do it in certain circumstances. I used to get direct payments for my Father and I lived in the same house - but that was a number of years ago and there was a medical reason why he could only have two or three family members deal with his care. But I agree unlikely SS would allow in this situation.

IQ

NYM

According to Carers UK

Are there restrictions on who you can employ?

Yes. The money cannot usually be used to employ a spouse, partner or a close relative who lives in the same household as the person receiving care, close relatives who live elsewhere are usually permitted. The council can waive these restrictions in some circumstances and direct payment users should discuss the employment of family or partners with their council.....

.....

If a person is getting a direct payment to pay for care they may decide to employ someone they already know, such as a family member or friend. There are rules around who you can and cannot employ using a direct payment.

The basic rule is that:

you cannot normally use the direct payment to pay a family member who is living with the person who needs care
If the family member is not living with the person it is possible.

In Scotland the rules are stricter and you cannot normally use a direct payment to pay any relative regardless of where they live.

The key phrase here is 'normally'. In exceptional circumstances it may be possible for the direct payment to be used to pay a relative who lives with them. In these cases you must give clear and specific reasons why only that family member can carry out the care. Religious reasons, language difficulties or specific health problems may be some of the reasons why ‘exceptional circumstances’ apply.

Icequeen99

blondebubbles wrote: »

Re: the grandparent only looking after their own grandchild then I would certainly hope they wouldn't pass the self employed test. If looking after other non-related children and their grandchildren then yes I would accept that.

I don't make the decisions though.

I agree it is difficult.

However, i think they would have hard time justifying a decision if the same decision wouldn't apply to non-related children.

If the grandparent is charging £150 a week per child (for example, i have no idea how much childcare costs) and would charge that for non-related children and is a fully registered childminder then the set-up would be exactly the same in both scenarios. So I am not sure how they justify saying one is commercial and one is not, if everything else is the same.

It would be different if they charged less or did extra hours then it would be easier to justify.

IQ

sheramber

https://www.gov.uk/help-with-childcare-costs/tax-credits

Childcare provided by partners and relatives

You can’t claim for childcare provided by your partner.

You can claim for childcare provided by a relative if they’re a registered childminder and they care for your child outside your home.

In Wales and Northern Ireland, you can claim for childcare provided by a relative who’s approved under a home childcare providers scheme. You can only claim if they care for your child outside your home and they care for at least one other child that isn’t related to you.