PCN but parked in private compound

julienetmum

I will report back later when my colleague gets back with his photos. He says the screen you enter your registration in has no signage/instructions as to what it is for so unless someone tells you......

Redx

signage "is relevant" here due to CEL obtaining keeper details under the BPA CoP because they signed up to an ATA in order to get the dvla access and access to an appeals process like popla is mandatory under that CoP

so signage is very relevant here, especially when changes are brought in, so check what the BPA CoP says about signage and also bear in mind what I said earlier

14 months ago Jeremy Hunt said that landowners (the trust) are jointly liable for the actions of their contractors, in this case CEL, so the hospital could intervene (but probably wont)

dont try to overthink this, its got nothing to do with supermarkets but its still follows the basics on private car parking and the BPA CoP and dvla access rules are all a part of it

the drivers should have been in a position where it was made blindingly obvious that new parking rules applied and what they needed to do about those new rules

so appeal as I said earlier, then take it to popla if the pcn,s are not cancelled

people will help you on here to achieve this, so do it the right way and CEL may well cancel the charges, otherwise its appeal on legal arguments to popla who I am sure will uphold your appeals

julienetmum

Ok, it appears we were wrong. The hospital car park is not pay and display. There is no charge but visitors have to enter their registration details on a touchscreen at the hospital reception desk.

Redx

so signage is extremely important, plus the bedding in period when new rules are applied, or a new contractor takes over car parking duties

18.3 Specific parking-terms signage tells drivers what your terms and conditions are, including your parking charges. You must place signs containing the specific parking terms throughout the site, so that drivers are given the chance to read them at the time of parking or leaving their vehicle. Keep a record of where all the signs are. Signs must be conspicuous and legible, and written in intelligible language, so that they are easy to see, read and understand

18.11 Where there is any change in the terms and conditions that materially affects the motorist then you should make these clear on your signage. Where such changes impose liability where none previously existed then you should consider a grace period to allow regular visitors to the site to adjust and familiarise themselves with the changes.

appeal in the manner I said earlier, then take it to popla for each and every case if no cancellations are forthcoming

Half_way

Bill the hospital for your wasted time/extra admin?

julienetmum

Things have just got a bit more interesting but I think I have to be careful what I say on a public forum.


I've just had a phone call from the hospital complaining about our taking of photographs telling us we are not allowed to do that.

Johno100

Half_way wrote: »

Bill the hospital for your wasted time/extra admin?

Or just pay it and add it on when they invoice the contractor they are working for.

julienetmum

Construction invoices don't work like that I'm afraid. everything has to be quoted for and any extras (variations) agreed in advance and authorised on official purchase orders.

julienetmum

I need to put in identifying details but is there anything else I should/should not have in?




Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. ....................

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car, on these main grounds:

a. The vehicles were not parked on the hospital car park but inside a construction compound approx. half a mile away from the designated public car parking area.
b). The sums are disproportionate, do not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss, nor is it a core price term.
c) The sum is extravagant and unconscionable and cannot be justified.
d). There is no evidence that you have any interest in the land. I will complain to the landowner about your aggressive ticketing.
e). Your 'Notices' fail to comply with the POFA so there can be no keeper liability as they were issued and received more than 15 days after the event.
f). I believe that the signs were not seen/are ambiguous and the predominant purpose is to deter so there is no contract to pay this charge, which is a penalty. The only signage is on entry to the hospital grounds and they appear to relate only to the public car parking areas which are ocated some distance away from the construction compound. There was no signage on entrance to the compound and no signage or instructions on the touch screen at the compound. Specific parking-terms signages should tell drivers what your terms and conditions are, you did not place signs containing the specific parking terms throughout the site, so the drivers were not given the chance to read them at the time of parking or leaving their vehicle.
g. Where there is any change in the terms and conditions that materially affects the motorist then you should make these clear on your signage. Where such changes impose liability where none previously existed then you should consider a grace period to allow regular visitors to the site to adjust and familiarise themselves with the changes.

Formal challenge
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 or cancel the charge. I will only appeal further if you offer POPLA, the only independent ADR with a scrutiny panel and trained Assessors. The 'IAS' offered by IPC firms will not be used, for well-documented reasons.

''Drop hands'' offer
The charge is baseless but I realise that you may have nominal postage costs. Equally, I have incurred costs for responding to your junk mail dressed up to mimic a parking ticket. It is clear that my costs and yours, at this point, do not exceed £15 so this is a formal “drop hands” offer. I remind you of the duty to mitigate any loss, so withdraw the spurious charge within 35 days and I will not pursue you for my costs.

Breach of CCRs
I hereby give notice of withdrawal from this alleged 'contract' which was never properly offered nor expressly agreed. This 'contract' is cancelled and any obligations now end.

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Half_way

Have you tried a few sacks/plastic sheeting over the cameras on the entry/exit points for the duration of the works? that will solve your problems.