Nursing care benefit and 'giving away' money

MarkyMarkD

I don't understand why councils wouldn't put a charge on properties in the circumstances Ed explains. I realise that they can't force a sale - but they are in no hurry. A charge means that whenever the property is sold, even many years later, the debt will be cleared.

cepheus

EdInvestor wrote: »

You will have to do this anyway, otherwise what is your mother going to do for money? So might as well make a start. Step one is for her to open an account if she doesn't have one of her own, not him.

Edinvestor

I'm not sure why this would help. Surely the best way of reducing my Fathers share of the money would be to open an account in his name and pay nursing fees and all reasonable travelling (visiting) expenses out of this. If only my Mother opened a separate account, the remaining money would still be shared and my Fathers care would still have to come out of this. Effectively half would be paid by my Father and half by by Mother, my Mothers part of the payment would be useless and is not an efficient way to reduce my Fathers share of the money below the threshold. Or have I misunderstood something?

EdInvestor

What accounts do they have at present? What's needed is to split their joint money into 2 accounts, one labelled "his" and one labelled "hers" which have 22.5k in each. If they have a joint account at present and she doesn't have an account of her own, can't she open one and he can write her a cheque for her money?Then her name can be taken off the joint account.

Or perhaps I've misunderstood something?

I don't understand why councils wouldn't put a charge on properties in the circumstances Ed explains. I realise that they can't force a sale - but they are in no hurry. A charge means that whenever the property is sold, even many years later, the debt will be cleared.

They are entitled to do so,certainly.But I had heard that some don't actually bother - anecdotally only.There may also be some further complication involving properties in trust.

cepheus

Ed

Unfortunately it is not that simple, there is not one joint account. It includes an investment bond which may be difficult to split and their main account is not a cheque account as far as I know, there are also ISAs. However, what you say in principle makes sense.

According to Age concern their capital is treated as split anyway,

http://www.ageconcern.org.uk/AgeConcern/Documents/FS39PAYINGFORCAREAPR07.pdf

See part 1.3

so as far as I can see it is only necessary to split of one small part of it to my Father and charge the nursing fees to that, the effect is the same as if the total amount was split isn't it? This way my Fathers share will quickly drop to 21.5k and he will start to qualify for LA funding, and presumably more LA funding as the amount is reduced further.

cepheus

I have stumbled across this website which may be useful. Has anyone used these advisors or know how they are funded.

http://www.ucarewecare.com/nursing-home-fees-advice.php

Errata

I would guess it's a commercial organisation. It's a little cavalier with it's information. These figures on the front page are out of date and very misleading and the information for one care home I looked at in it's directory was over two years out of date. Caveat emptor I think.

Local government broadly speaking pays your nursing home fees if you have assets of less than £21,000 in England and Northern Ireland (£21,500 in Wales and £20,000 in Scotland

EdInvestor

cepheus wrote: »

It includes an investment bond which may be difficult to split

Capital in IBs is excluded from the asset total, they count as insurance.But any "income" withdrawal will be counted.

there are also ISAs.

These can't be transferred, but perhaps this money is already in separate names?

cepheus

Ed

Thanks for this information. Actually, I think it might be a guaranteed equity/stockmarket bond, the sort of product that has a limit on the return but guarantees at least the original capital back. Unfortunately, no-one in the branch could tell me exactly what it was, because the person who had sold it had moved onto another branch ! :wall: When I pay a visit up North next, it will be on my list of things to find out. Not sure about the ISAs but they did take out a 6k cash ISA at least for the last 2 years

MarkyMarkD

Ed, surely you didn't say "this ISA money MAY be in separate names"?

As anyone knows, ISAs can only be in separate names.

EdInvestor

MarkyMarkD wrote: »

Ed, surely you didn't say "this ISA money MAY be in separate names"?

As anyone knows, ISAs can only be in separate names.

There may be several ISAs, all in his name, all in her name, or in a mixture of both - oldies quite often have an array of different building society accounts, as you know . Of course they can't be in joint names, as you say.

A "6k cash ISA" suggests there are two, one each, for each year as the individual limit is 3k, so that looks to be already sorted

Not sure about the rules on GEBs.

.