Nursing care benefit and 'giving away' money

Poppy9

Errata wrote: »

Ed, is this correct? I thought all LA's were governed by national rules on this and had to put a charge on the property if circumstances dictated.

My LA puts charges on houses. When the house is sold they receive the income from the proceeds. This can be years later.

cepheus

EdInvestor wrote: »

Savings in your mother's name will not be touched. Equally if she is dependent on your father's pension, then not all of that will be used to pay for his care either. If their savings are held jointly it would be wise to split them now so each share is held separately.(This is not considered "deprivation of assets".)

Thanks for this EdInvestor, this is very interesting. Their total savings might amount to 45k so if this is split 50/50 so if my Father holds 22.5k and Mother 22.5k are you are saying only the 22.5k of my Fathers will be the figure used for assessing the self funding amount and as this falls below the lower threshold the LA should pay the entire amount? I would be interested if anyone has actually done this successfully.

Poppy9 said
OP as you posted a link to NPT I'm assuming you are in that area. Contact the Carers support network which can also put you in touch with other relevant organisations. You can also ask your social services department if they have a Welfare benefits officer who can come and talk to you and your mother.
Neither my parents or myself live there, but there may be a local Welfare officer in my Fathers area. Would these people be totally independent of those who decide what the self-funding fees should be? Perhaps the other option is to go to an IFA. It was a local social services officer who raised the alarm on this financial issue although she could not give any financial advice.

Errata

Poppy9 wrote: »

My LA puts charges on houses. When the house is sold they receive the income from the proceeds. This can be years later.

So does mine, and so do the ajacent LA's, which is why I queried what Ed posted.

glenstan

In last few years have had first hand experience of parent in law being in care home and self funding. My advice to anyone looking after parents money is keep all receipts for any and all money spent, ask to be kept informed,and included in any assessments done on relative being looked after. Keep diary of all meetings, telephone calls, and changes noticed in persons ability to cope with daily tasks. I was not happy with the care my late inlaw was assessed as needing and after a long battle successfully won 2 years of her care home fees back , this was not easy and the case went to the omsbudsman. I was told by social worker I the first person in uk to bring a person out of a home for the elderly and back into there own home on direct payments 24 /7, My mil was charged the max under the fairer payments scheme for her contribution to direct payments , this still saved around £900 per month on care home fees , she had a team of 5 handpicked carers to look after her and she was in her own enviroment eating food of her choosing most importantly she was as content as her illness would allow.

Poppy9

cepheus wrote: »

Neither my parents or myself live there, but there may be a local Welfare officer in my Fathers area. Would these people be totally independent of those who decide what the self-funding fees should be? Perhaps the other option is to go to an IFA. It was a local social services officer who raised the alarm on this financial issue although she could not give any financial advice.

Welfare officers are attached to your local council but not part of the DSS - though many are ex - employees for their expertise in benefits. Most council employees are also people who are/will be in future in your position and they are not out to rob you but to assess you fairly. They should understand that clients are loathe to reveal their financial details, not because they have something to hide, but just because they feel it's private. They should be sensitive in dealing with the matter. We all know though that like all professions there are bad eggs, so if you are not happy and it cannot be quickly resolved, involve your local councillor.

For independent advice seek out Age Concern and other networks in your local area. You should find leaflets in hospitals, Doctors surgeries, libraries, council offices etc. There is also good old GOOGLE.:T

EdInvestor

Errata wrote: »

Ed, is this correct? I thought all LA's were governed by national rules on this and had to put a charge on the property if circumstances dictated.

In a situation where the property is jointly owned with the spouse I am sure they do, so that when the second death occurs and the house is sold they claim back what they are owed.

But if the house is only half owned by the person in care, and that half is willed to or owned by a son or daughter, the council can't ever force a sale to collect the debt as you can't sell half a house.I have heard that they tend to give up in these circumstances.

Mind you, I think worrying about this is the wrong way to approach paying for care.Looking at finance options such as immediate needs annuities, which are value for money and affordable while also leaving a decent chunk of money for inheritance and guaranteeing peace of mind, is much more sensible.

EdInvestor

cepheus wrote: »

Thanks for this EdInvestor, this is very interesting. Their total savings might amount to 45k so if this is split 50/50 so if my Father holds 22.5k and Mother 22.5k are you are saying only the 22.5k of my Fathers will be the figure used for assessing the self funding amount and as this falls below the lower threshold the LA should pay the entire amount?

Yes.Make sure the money is in separate named bank accounts.

margaretclare

EdInvestor wrote: »

Yes. Make sure the money is in separate named bank accounts.

This might be difficult to do as Dad is in hospital. However, I do think that more older couples should consider this before things arrive at this stage. We all now get an individual personal tax allowance, £7550 a year each age 65-74, so it might even be tax-efficient to split the savings. I have never much liked the idea of joint savings accounts.

Margaret

cepheus

margaretclare wrote: »

This might be difficult to do as Dad is in hospital. Margaret

Yes, virtually impossible, in fact it was quite traumatic getting Dad down to the Bank even before this recent illness. I may enquire if it is possible to do this remotely by opening a postal account, then switching funds.
The only other alternative I can think of is obtaining a power of attorney. Presumably the funds would still remain in my Dad's name for the purposes of calculating nursing fees.

As far as I can tell it would make no difference if only part of the total savings (about 10k) were split into individual accounts. If so this would make things a lot easier since only one of the accounts need be changed.

EdInvestor

You will have to do this anyway, otherwise what is your mother going to do for money? So might as well make a start. Step one is for her to open an account if she doesn't have one of her own, not him.