Nursing care benefit and 'giving away' money

margaretclare

Cepheus, you say 'they saved all their lives for a rainy day'.

This is it. The rainy day has arrived.

Margaret

EdInvestor

cepheus wrote: »

My mother will be devastated with this news since she intended to save something for her grandson. After all she has been through in the past few weeks I doubt if it is wise break the news immediately.

Savings in your mother's name will not be touched.Equally if she is dependant on your father's pension, then not all of that will be used to pay for his care either.If their savings are held jointly it would be wise to split them now so each share is held separately.(This is not considered "deprivation of assets".)

It's also wise to arrange the ownership of the family home so that it is held 50/50 as "tenants in common" not as joint tenants. The home will not be taken in any case while the spouse is living in it, but if only half of it is owned by the person in care, the councils tend to recognise that they will never be able to sell half of a house, and don't bother to put a "charge" against the property.(This is not guaranteed but it's fairly likely.)

It seems as if it is legal to transfer money to other people to avoid large amounts of inheritance tax at short notice but not to avoid the erosion of much smaller and more important savings in the case of nursing care!

Not so.Many such transfers have the opposite effect. Re care costs, unfortunately people often don't plan ahead.

margaretclare

It's also wise to arrange the ownership of the family home so that it is held 50/50 as "tenants in common" not as joint tenants. The home will not be taken in any case while the spouse is living in it, but if only half of it is owned by the person in care, the councils tend to recognise that they will never be able to sell half of a house, and don't bother to put a "charge" against the property.(This is not guaranteed but it's fairly likely.)

Ed, the OP said they have already sold their house:

The financial situation is difficult since my parents sold their house to raise money for interest to live off which I think is in the region of around £45K. This will be eaten into due to the requirement to be self funding above a certain savings threshold. This would not be a problem if the money could be given away since it seems as that inheritance tax/PETs would not be an issue for giving away this relatively small amount. However the rules state:

If Mum has some money and wants to leave it to grandchild, as it's hers and won't be touched, why not give it to grandchild now?

I'm not 'planning ahead for care costs' as Ed says, but we have all savings and investments separate. Joint account only used for household bills.

Margaret

Ted_Hutchinson

As it was their house that was sold region of around £45K.

Age concern factsheet Paying for Care if you have a partner tells us that when assessing the capital an individual has that count the capital that is held in that persons sole name and a SHARE of the capital held in Joint names.

It is likely that 50% of that capital belongs to the father and 50% to the mother. So the amount that is over the £21.500 limit is not really worth worrying about and could easily be accounted for by a capital purchase relevant to their joint needs (IE new car to enable reliable visits to the care home)

Norman-B

I hope noboby minds if I post on this subject.

I have just been advised by my dad's care home, that the increase in his fees to cover Nursing care, is an extra £375 per week! Wow, I was prepared for an increase but not as much as this. The care/nursing home told me that trying to get funding under contining care funding is like getting blood from a stone.

My dad is going to be assessed and then we have to see the social Services about funding.

As Margaret pointed out earlier, his rainy day has arrived but it's hard to swallow.

margaretclare

Hi Norman

Have a look at this site, which Ted posted earlier. http://www.gpss.tripoduk.com/nhscare/

The care/nursing home told me that trying to get funding under contining care funding is like getting blood from a stone.

Well, they would say that, wouldn't they. It's still worth battling for, though. Head on over to the AgeConcern discussion boards and look for someone who posts on there called NiceGuy. He has recently fought the system successfully even though his success came after his parents' death, but he's willing to help other people in the same battle.

Depending on the effects of your Dad's stroke I would think that yes, he does need 'nursing' as opposed to 'care'. I have seen too many people with a left-sided stroke, arm dangling rather than supported (this causes intense pain) because no one knew better. He may need speech therapy, help with feeding if swallowing is impaired, and all those things come under the heading of 'nursing' i.e. skilled qualified intervention, as opposed to 'care'.

We may all have a 'rainy day' still to come, that's why DH and I are still saving and investing (and also giving to grandchildren as and when they need it, not to get rid of it ourselves). However, this is a happy day for me. 'D' grade in GCSE Maths, so a few 'ghosts' from my childhood have had a stake thrust through the heart and have been well and truly buried!

Good luck to you and your Dad.

HTH

Margaret

margaretclare

Ted_Hutchinson wrote: »

As it was their house that was sold region of around £45K.

Age concern factsheet Paying for Care if you have a partner tells us that when assessing the capital an individual has that count the capital that is held in that persons sole name and a SHARE of the capital held in Joint names.

It is likely that 50% of that capital belongs to the father and 50% to the mother. So the amount that is over the £21.500 limit is not really worth worrying about and could easily be accounted for by a capital purchase relevant to their joint needs (IE new car to enable reliable visits to the care home)

This is well worth knowing. So mother's share of the house sale, her savings etc, are out of the equation. She can save for her grandchild if that's what she chooses to do.

Perhaps it's high time that older couples should think of splitting their assets between them, instead of keeping everything 'joint'.

Margaret

Poppy9

OP as you posted a link to NPT I'm assuming you are in that area. Contact the Carers support network which can also put you in touch with other relevant organisations. You can also ask your social services department if they have a Welfare benefits officer who can come and talk to you and your mother.

Not sure but I think the funding for care is slightly different in Wales to England. The NHS pick up the Nursing home element of care (£111) and the LA will pay the care home directly for the residential element, assess the client and recharge as necessary. There is a 6 weeks free care scheme in place in Wales where you have to make no contribution at all. It's a WAG grant scheme to get patients out of hospital to release beds. The social worker should be able to tell you more.

Your father may also not go into a home. My elderly aunt (age 84) broke her leg then her hip within a couple of months. She is home after a brief spell in a rehab unit. She stayed in the Rehab unit for a couple of months, for which there is no charge. She is home now and living alone despite only shuffling about. Social Services arranged to have a stairlift installed and apart from that she had Meals on Wheels (£2.40 per meal). Homecare is also a real option as Social Services are geared towards providing high level of homecare to elderly/disabled people. There is a charge for this, but again WAG (Welsh Assembly Govt.) have introduced a Fairer Charging scheme which caps the amount that a client can be charged. In many cases is will be free. The £22k capital threashold applies before charges. Finally if you do go for Homecare you can opt for Direct Payments. This gives you the choice about who provides the homecare. You will receive the money from Social Services to pay the carers direct. Previously many clients refused to be assessed as they didn't want to admit to what savings they had etc. this meant they were charged the full cost. Often they were under the misconception that £8k was the capital limit.

EdInvestor

margaretclare wrote: »

This is well worth knowing. So mother's share of the house sale, her savings etc, are out of the equation. She can save for her grandchild if that's what she chooses to do.

Perhaps it's high time that older couples should think of splitting their assets between them, instead of keeping everything 'joint'.

IMHO it is more sensible - though it can involve more red tape.One advantage would be that it would help to put a stop to the problem of elderly wives being left as widows with zero knowledge of financial affairs.

Congrats on the maths result

Errata

........the councils tend to recognise that they will never be able to sell half of a house, and don't bother to put a "charge" against the property.(This is not guaranteed but it's fairly likely.)

Ed, is this correct? I thought all LA's were governed by national rules on this and had to put a charge on the property if circumstances dictated.