Britain and the EU

CLAPTON

Generali wrote: »

It looks like some serious study is being done into the impact of Brexit at last. This is one on the farming sector (as the full survey costs £900 you'll excuse me from only linking to the Executive Summary I'm sure):

http://foodchemicalnewspromo.agra-net.com/files/2015/10/AE-Preparing-for-Brexit-SUMMARY.pdf

It contains a timely reminder for those that point to the Norway model:



According to the Guardian, the report claims that 10% of UK farms would not go bust as a result of a Brexit.

Of course that assumes that the UK would be allowed to have the same market access as Norway. A Brexit would, I assume, be met with a determination by the EU that no other country would be encouraged to go down that path. The EU would happily destroy as much of the economy of the UK as it could. All those electronics and car factories that make up a large chunk of the UK's manufacturing sector would be closed within a couple of years.

If you hate the EU enough to want to be poor then fair enough but be under no illusions: the UK will be in poverty if they quit the EU.

unbelievable that anyone with even an accounting degree would support this economically illiterate article.

hint : the alternative to EU subsidies (funded of course from UK contributions to the EU budget) isn't no subsidies

CLAPTON

Mistermeaner wrote: »

Not checked facts but the above would be my fear - an exit based on emotive dislike of migration and bendy bananas rather than proper consideration of economic consequences.

As with all such things getting proper financial data will nigh on impossible and also buried in a pile of daily mail garbage

bendy bananas to you but the real facts were

-refuse to allow the import of food that was safe and nutritious but didn't meet cosmetic standards

this meant that many poor farmers in poor countries couldn't sell their nutritious food

food (in a world with starvation) was dumped

food costs in the EU were higher than necessary due to real restriction on trade


maybe give some proper consideration to the socio-economic facts rather that emotional rubbish about bendy bananas

Mistermeaner

Indeed - that is what I'd like to do

antrobus

CLAPTON wrote: »

unbelievable that anyone with even an accounting degree would support this economically illiterate article.

More than 60% of the UK’s food exports go to the EU. The EU has high import tarrifs on food. What do you think would happen?

CLAPTON wrote: »

...hint : the alternative to EU subsidies (funded of course from UK contributions to the EU budget) isn't no subsidies

Since in the very next post you complain that "food costs in the EU were higher than necessary due to real restriction on trade", presumably that would mean even higher subsidies in order to allow British farmers to compete at these lower prices.

CLAPTON

antrobus wrote: »

More than 60% of the UK’s food exports go to the EU. The EU has high import tarrifs on food. What do you think would happen?



Since in the very next post you complain that "food costs in the EU were higher than necessary due to real restriction on trade", presumably that would mean even higher subsidies in order to allow British farmers to compete at these lower prices.

are you in favour of high tariff barriers?
are you in favour of restrictions on trade?

we both import and export to the EU

the situation has to be seen in the whole.

but for the record I do not support the EU farming / food policies

but it is economic illiteracy to compare the UK farming viability by comparing EU subsidies with none.

wotsthat

Let's all just accept that the financial benefits (or not) are just guesses made by economic illiterates. It would help keep this thread on-topic - we all know what the topic is.

vivatifosi

Generali wrote: »

It looks like some serious study is being done into the impact of Brexit at last. This is one on the farming sector (as the full survey costs £900 you'll excuse me from only linking to the Executive Summary I'm sure):

http://foodchemicalnewspromo.agra-net.com/files/2015/10/AE-Preparing-for-Brexit-SUMMARY.pdf

It contains a timely reminder for those that point to the Norway model:



According to the Guardian, the report claims that 10% of UK farms would not go bust as a result of a Brexit.

Of course that assumes that the UK would be allowed to have the same market access as Norway. A Brexit would, I assume, be met with a determination by the EU that no other country would be encouraged to go down that path. The EU would happily destroy as much of the economy of the UK as it could. All those electronics and car factories that make up a large chunk of the UK's manufacturing sector would be closed within a couple of years.

If you hate the EU enough to want to be poor then fair enough but be under no illusions: the UK will be in poverty if they quit the EU.

This is at the root of what I don't understand about the EU. Farm subsidies are clearly important to UK farmers. So why not release such facts dispassionately and without having to pay £900? The whole billboard thing smacks of propaganda, blights the countryside and helps nobody see the big picture.

This should rightly be seen as a huge decision which will shape the future of the UK politically, economically and socially for decades to come. More facts to make the right decision would be most welcome.

Mistermeaner

^ what he said

Edit: the last bit, not the 900quid stuff

Generali

vivatifosi wrote: »

Farm subsidies are clearly important to UK farmers. So why not release such facts dispassionately and without having to pay £900?

Because the figures come from an economic research company that charges money for access to its research as its business model.

The company concerned doesn't work as a pro or anti-EU organisation AFAIK, they sell economic data to people that seek to use that for their own profit. They make money by being right rather than taking one side or another of the argument.

I'm sure you'd be a little miffed if a stranger came to your house and insisted that you helped them find a book when you were on a day off.

This company no more gives away their research than Toyota gives away cars or Maccas gives away hamburgers. Selling research is what they do (and kinda what I do).

antrobus

CLAPTON wrote: »

are you in favour of high tariff barriers?
are you in favour of restrictions on trade?

we both import and export to the EU

the situation has to be seen in the whole.

but for the record I do not support the EU farming / food policies

but it is economic illiteracy to compare the UK farming viability by comparing EU subsidies with none.

It is perfectly economically literate to point out that large sections of the UK farming industry rely on a combination of EU subsidies and EU tariff barriers to stay in business. What would be economically illiterate would be to think that you could leave the EU without any consequences to UK farming without having a similar level of subsdies and tariff barriers.