Britain and the EU

Graham_Devon

antrobus wrote: »

Our money was not used to finance the recent bailout of Greece.

I never said it was. I specifically stated, to which you have twisted, that the bridge loan was used. They utilised the EFSM to do it.

14th July

David Cameron has ruled out British taxpayers providing any funding for a Greek bailout, despite speculation the UK could be asked to contribute as much as £1bn towards the bill.

Arriving in Brussels for a meeting of European finance ministers, Osborne said: “Britain is not in the euro, so the idea that British taxpayers will be on the line for this Greek deal is a complete non-starter. The eurozone needs to foot its own bill.”

16th July

George Osborne has backed down over the use of an EU bailout fund to give an emergency loan to Greece.

.string.

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Just taking the first one in isolation, as you seem to be struggling with what's being said.

Currently, we struggle in the UK to control our borders when it comes to EU migration. We also struggle with the benefits situation (though I believe the EU is starting to listen on this).

Those are two big ticket items that, because we are in the EU, we lose control over.

Coming out of the EU will enable us to regain control of those areas ........

Just a minute! What would happen, in your opinion, after this regain of control?

Would we then ask all the EU citizens to leave?

When you answer that tell me how you think such an action would affect my daughter and her family who live and work in Spain, and my son and his family who live and work in Holland.

If your answer is of the type; probably some can stay, based on what work they do etc., then that will admit that some of these dreadfully unwanted migrants are actually useful to us in the UK.

A result of leaving negotiations? I doubt it.

This is a very real consequence I worry about and, I really don't like the migrant issue being used in a simple minded political football without thinking through the consequences for people like me and my family.

Graham_Devon

.string. wrote: »

Just a minute! What would happen, in your opinion, after this regain of control?

I don't know. That's why I specifically stated we would regain control and then it would be up to politicians how to use it.

As a personal answer to your question, I would rather hope not. I don't see any logical or political reason for either the UK or the EU to "chuck people out of the country" should we leave the EU.

I also don't think anyone, at least that I have seen who believes we are better off out of the EU either believes or wants to chuck people out of the country. The only reference I have ever seen to this scenario is from those using it as an argument not to come out of the EU as, in theory, we could decide to implement those rules. I.e. another scare story.

In my mind, any sensible person, and I believe the UK would be in this boat would simply state the new rules and state "from this date forward X and Y applies".

Mistermeaner

I see some (IMO) bad stuff continuing if we stay and some (IMO) good stuff continuing if we stay.

If we leave I am not sure we would do much better on the bad stuff and would worry about the risks re losing the good stuff.

Today I'm wavering towards staying because the of the uncertainty of leaving.

Yesterday I was thinking stuff it we should leave as how bad could things get.

I need to hear arguments from all sides.

Please argue

CLAPTON

wotsthat wrote: »

As half of all immigrants come from outside the EU and we can pick and choose which to accept how can you be sure numbers would fall if we left the EU?

There'd probably be no European free movement but no guarantees you wouldn't have the chance to make 500,000 new friends every year.

We (the UK parliament ) would gain control of all immigration.

Whether it is used to reduce the current numbers depends upon who is in power.

The Eu has given up on any effective control of its borders : as an island we can at least gain partial control, if we wish.

N1AK

kabayiri wrote: »

If this short thread is anything to go by, this is going to be quite an aggressive referendum from both sides.

Even if the result is to remain in, the campaign process could drive deep divisions within the Tory party.

It will be, though I struggle to see how people get so aggressive about things like this. My Granddad despises the EU and rants about us being overrun by Syrians (currently), and I'm a self-labelled European who agreed with my wife we'd leave the UK if it leaves Europe, and think we should spend considerably more on foreign aid; as far as I am aware neither of us has disowned the other!

N1AK

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I also don't think anyone, at least that I have seen who believes we are better off out of the EU either believes or wants to chuck people out of the country.

The woman in the photo: "I just want to send the lot back."

And no Graham, as much as you like to lie, deny, and conveniently forget, she wasn't talking about an unwanted delivery of groceries!

kabayiri

N1AK wrote: »

It will be, though I struggle to see how people get so aggressive about things like this. My Granddad despises the EU and rants about us being overrun by Syrians (currently), and I'm a self-labelled European who agreed with my wife we'd leave the UK if it leaves Europe, and think we should spend considerably more on foreign aid; as far as I am aware neither of us has disowned the other!

Small 'shire village here.

2 things have happened. 1) a banner in the village centre saying "Welcome Syrians" and 2) nearby a single house being allocated to a refugee family.

You'd have thought there was a collapse in the fabric of society if you heard the agitated discussions. I never heard these people declare any interest in the run up to the GE !

I don't think we have had any politician with a firm grip on immigration policy since the arrival of New Labour, and some people see this as payback time.

Personally, I'm looking forward to Camerons "Vow #2" to placate the Leave campaign, delivered 2 days before the referendum. It will be so vague ; both sides will claim it's a win for them ; it will lead to years of moaning

Graham_Devon

N1AK wrote: »

The woman in the photo: "I just want to send the lot back."

And no Graham, as much as you like to lie, deny, and conveniently forget, she wasn't talking about an unwanted delivery of groceries!

Who is she? I said as far as I have seen.....

I've never seen or heard of her as far as I'm aware.

Not sure where the "you like to lie" thing has come from...or even why it was needed in all honesty.

Thrugelmir

N1AK wrote: »

I'm a self-labelled European who agreed with my wife we'd leave the UK if it leaves Europe,

Europe isn't in agreement about Europe.........

At the moment Juncker makes the rules up as he goes along. Economic migrants being an example. Self interest rules. Full integration is no closer now than 40 years ago.